House of Sky and Breath

House of Sky and Breath is the second book in the Crescent City series by Sarah J Maas. We return to Lunathion to find new horrifying depths to the Asteri and how this world formed.

Jen and Ellie dive back in with Bryces to fight with the rebels, find out secrets and fall into traps.

Transcript

IWST_Episode_8_House of Sky and Breath
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Ellie: [00:00:00] Hi and welcome to If We Survive This, a podcast where we read fantasy books and discuss how likely we'd be to survive the challenges in them. A quick warning that this podcast is filled with spoilers for all aspects of the book. 

Jen: I'm Jen, the slightly more bookish side of the podcast, though I do have some fitness credentials.

And I'm Ellie, 

Ellie: I could survive in the wild for weeks as long as I have a good audiobook. Today we're discussing House of Sky and Breath, aka Crescent City Book Two by Sarah J Maas. Let's see if we survive this. The second book in the series opens on Sophie Rennest, a rebel and mostly human who has made the drop.

She's a Thunderbird, a rare species that the Asteri hunted to extinction. After a successful rescue of her brother from a prison camp, Sophie is thrown into the ocean by the Hind. Word reaches Lunathien that Sophie's brother is also a Thunderbird and has arrived in the city to hide. Tharion is put on the case by the River Queen and quickly brings in Bryce and Hunt to help.[00:01:00] 

It's a few months after the events of the first book, and a new archangel, Celestina, has been assigned to the city. Little is known about her, but from the start she seems approachable and kind. Hunt slowly starts to warm to her, but unfortunately half of Sandriel's old triari were also assigned to the city.

bringing the hammer into close proximity and the hellhound into Hunt's daily life. Hunt's actions put political pressure on Celestina, who is forced to mate with another archangel to stay in the Asteri's good graces. After Bryce's declaration of her fey heritage in the last book, The Autumn King decides to betroth her to her cousin, the Fae Prince Cormac Donnel.

Cormac makes a grand entrance to announce himself, showing his shadow and teleportation powers. Cormac is soon revealed to be Aegean Silverbow, the rebel who was in love with Sophie Renast. He agreed to the betrothal to get access to the city, so he could search for Emile, her brother and continue to look for Sophie, who he doesn't [00:02:00] believe is dead.

Sophie had been working with Danica and just before her death found some top secret information on the estuary. She is also in touch with Agent Daybright, a double agent in the Vanir command. Rune agrees to take over communicating with Daybright due to his telepathy and quickly strikes up a friendship.

All signs point to Emil being in the Bone Quarter and Bryce decides to confront the Underking. While in the Bone Quarter they learn the truth about what happens to the dead, with souls being used as second light and destroyed. The Underking threatens the remaining members of Danica's pack before attacking Bryce and Hunt, who discover new depths to their powers to survive.

Ethan, who has been kicked out of the pack by Sabine, joins Rune and his friends. After finding out about the second light, he insists on visiting the astronomer, who has control over three Vanir mystics, who can travel between worlds in their minds. Their search for answers leads to one of the mystics getting caught by a prince of hell, who finds them through the magical link.

[00:03:00] The astronomer kicks them out, but not before Ethan steals his rings, containing enslaved fire sprites and a dragon. Daybright sends a message that the Estere have created new mech suits. They tip off Ophian and join the rebels to intercept the suits, but on discovering how dangerous they are, Bryce, Hunt and the rest destroy the suits.

While trying to escape the rebels, they find the hind is after them, tipped off on the rebel location and now on their tails. She catches them on the open water, but just before she can catch them, the crew are saved by a vessel belonging to the Ocean Queen, another mer veneer working against the estuary.

Ocean Queen's people recovered Sophie's bhaji. and show it to Cormuck, who finally accepts she is dead. Sophie has a number carved on her arm, but no one knows what it means. On returning to Linathean, Bryce reveals she knows Emile's location, and that she made deals with the Viper Queen to keep him safe.

Emile has no powers, and Bryce arranges for him [00:04:00] to be secretly adopted by her parents. Everyone is angry at her for this lie, Hunt especially. At the Equinox Ball, Bryce announces to the world that she and Hunt are mated, and Ruin decides to meet Daybright in person. Ruin's plans are scuppered, but not as much as Celestina, whose relationship with Hypaxia is revealed to Hunt and Bryce.

After the ball, the Princes of Hell contact Bryce and Hunt again, insisting that the Asteri are the true evil and Hell will fight alongside any who rise against them. Hypaxia, the Witch Queen, became entangled in the story when she came to Ruin for help. In exchange for Ethan guarding her, she agrees to try and contact his dead brother to make sure his soul still exists.

They plan to do this at the Equinox. When Hypaxia tries to contact the dead, the Underking arrives instead. threatening them and instructing Bryce to meet him at Urd's temple. Bryce and Hunt go into the obvious trap. The rebels attack the temple and the triarii are brought in to kill them. Hunt and Bryce only escape thanks to Baxian the Hellhound, who reveals his rebel sympathies and tells them that he and Danica [00:05:00] were mates.

Baxian tells them that Danica and Sophie worked together to break into the Asteri archives in the Eternal City. Bryce decides she will do the same to find out what they knew. With a deadly mission looming, everyone has loose ends to tie up. Ethan tries to free the wolf veneer that the astronomer has captured, finding out she is a potential alpha of his wolf pack.

Tharion tries to smooth things over with the river queen and her daughter, which ends up with him pledging himself to the viper queen to survive. Rune and Daybrite get intimate before Rune tells her their plans. Daywright warns him the Esteri are expecting them before disappearing. Rune decides to enter the Eternal City to save Daywright.

The mission starts. Cormac makes a distraction that ends in his death, Tharion narrowly escaping. At the same time, Bryce breaks into the archives. She learns the truth. The Asteri are interdimensional beings that feed on magic. The world as she knows it was formed by the Asteri creating a power source for themselves and all the veneer were brought in from different worlds as food sources.

The Asteri [00:06:00] are essentially powered by first light and later second light. Regulus is waiting for Bryce and appears as she finds the information. Hunt, Rune and Bryce are captured and the harpy starts torturing them. Then the hind appears, kills the harpy and is revealed to be Agent Daybright. She helps them but can't free them and as the hammer approaches she reverts back to her cover.

Rune is horrified. They're brought before Gregulus who reveals he wants to use Luna's horn to access more worlds. Hunt and Rune urge Bryce to run and use the horn and she narrowly manages to escape through what she hopes is a portal to hell. Regulus punishes Hunt by enslaving him again and it's unknown what happens to Rune and Baxion.

Bryce ends up in the Akatar world, meeting Asriel and gets brought to meet Feyre, Rhys and the Inner Circle. Armin understands Bryce's language and knows something about the different worlds. Things are about to get a lot more complex. 

Jen: I didn't dislike it, but I didn't like it as much as I usually Sarah J Maas [00:07:00] books.

Ooh, okay. Now, I feel like there needs to be a bit of context with this. So, we both started reading this book absolutely ages ago, and we both hit reading slumps and just like life got super busy. So. Yes. At least for me. I read probably about. a third of the book, and then I had a few weeks where I didn't read it all.

And then I went back and read the second two thirds of the book. And now it's been about six weeks since I finished it. 

Ellie: And it's 

Jen: been less than 24 hours 

Ellie: since 

Jen: I 

Ellie: finished it. So both of us are at very different, uh, Processing points or memory points for the book. 

Jen: Yeah, I kind of feel like with the distance from it, the main things that I remember about the book are criticisms, as opposed to things that I really enjoyed.

I still want to read. Well, okay, I still want to read the next book in the series and stuff. But if I was going to reread any Sarah J Maas books [00:08:00] at the moment, it would, it wouldn't be the Crescent City series. 

Ellie: But, but it's also the most recent series you have read. 

Jen: I know, but like as an enjoyment of 

Ellie: the books.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Fair. 

Jen: What 

Ellie: did you think 

Jen: of it? 

Ellie: I enjoyed it. And so I, yeah, we started a while ago, like started reading it, trying to get out of a reading slump. But also because Sarah J Maas is such a famous author. so popular on the different online social media apps. I saw a like theory that I don't know if I want to say out loud because it impacts the other two series.

Both of us have read all of Sarah J Maas's other books so this isn't going to explain anything for you. But it might spoil stuff for people who haven't, let's say, read the Throne of Glass or 

Jen: Akatar 

Ellie: series. It's just, it's just a concept. 

Jen: This is something that's, I kind of feel like we have a problem with the order of this now because we know there are things that are going to get [00:09:00] pulled in from the other series.

So when we get to the, like, I'm nearly 100 percent sure half, at least half of the next book is going to be within the different worlds. So can we discuss things like, you know, 

Ellie: cause it's so, yeah, I, I guess we're going to have to put in a little warning here is that the Crescent City books by Sarah J Maas are the most recent series she's writing or has started.

And to talk about it, you have to talk about all of her previous books. So if you're listening to this podcast and you haven't read her previous books. And you want to, I'm very sorry, but go read the books first and come back in a year when you've finished all 15 books in her that she's written. 

Jen: Or like go read one and then look slightly into the future where we're probably going to cover all those books as well.

So just, you know, depends on, on, on when you're [00:10:00] listening to this, but yeah, we're going to, we have to talk about it in context with her other series and the other things that happen. You just can't not do that. Yes. Sorry. So back to, uh, what you were saying. 

Ellie: Yes. So what I was saying was there was this like meme, phrase, whatever, that was like, Oh, whatever you do when reading a Sarah J Maas book, never get attached to the first love interest because you know, they're not going to be the one.

And I saw this just before I started book two and I was like, wait, was Connor? in book one long enough to be counted as the first love interest? Is Hunt the first love interest and is he going to die? And I was like, I, there was, I don't know, my emotions were running high. I was like, I like Hunt too much.

I am not in a mental headspace for them to break up right now. And so I literally made it a hundred pages into this book and I, and they were like, like at the [00:11:00] start of the book, they are a little bit like rocky, like not knowing, like. How they're going to play out their relationship because obviously they just went through a giant traumatic event and yeah, and so I, that was actually one of the reasons why I put down the book for like a couple of weeks.

I'm so sorry, Jen. Oh my God, 

Jen: you see. The thing with this is there is a point I wanted to make on the last podcast episode for like the first Crescent City book that I didn't make because I didn't want to talk about her other series and if I had made it this would not have happened to you. This series is very obviously written in conversation with the criticisms of her previous books.

So she's taking all the things that she gets criticized for online and change the characters. So I kind of knew she like, she's known for Throne of Glass, the first ship gets sunk, um, Akatar, the first ship gets sunk. Without a doubt, at least first book, like Hunt might not make it through every single book, but I knew he's definitely going to make it at [00:12:00] least till book three, if not book four.

Ellie: Wait, how many books are forecast for this series? God only 

Jen: knows. I'd say probably about seven, to be honest. I'm going to Google it. 

Ellie: Sorry to interrupt because if I'm honest, like I, I really didn't, I think I enjoyed this book possibly more than you, but possibly that's also just because I literally finished it yesterday.

But it does give off very book two of a trilogy energy. 

Jen: Yeah. Um, so like I, I've, I've Googled it. Okay. And it's confirmed at least up till book four. But this is what always happens with these ones is like, oh yeah, yeah. And there will be a next and a next. So I wouldn't be surprised if this went up. Yeah.

Really high. 

Ellie: Um, yeah, my feeling of that kind of second book and a trilogy energy, 'cause it goes from the, like the micro of just the city to the like, macro of the world. So it's like all this new con, not new context, but like. You've [00:13:00] survived this small one and now do it on a this scale. Yes, but where were we in general, uh, before my emotional, like, breakdown at the idea of losing Hunt straight away.

Jen: When, so when you finally got back to it, did you, you enjoyed it? Yeah. 

Ellie: I did. 

Jen: Yeah, I did. 

Ellie: Yes. I, so, no. Okay. So now that you've said this thing about this book being a, I guess, Sarah J Maas taking on her criticisms and working through them or whatever, is that I do feel like it was paced better in that in previous books of hers that I've read, the first 80%.

is all character development and the last 20 percent is all plot. And I've never actually really minded because I kind of like how she writes characters and that there are very few characters of hers that feel completely one dimensional. So it's [00:14:00] kind of fun to like tease out and learn stuff about them.

Um, but I feel like this time it was a lot more interwoven so much so that I got to the last 150 pages and I was like, Whoa, maybe it's not going to be. A huge dramatic ending this time, how wrong I was, but, but that means that she had balanced it so much to that point that I was like, Oh no, no, like it's, it's, there's been, there's been like mixes of everything.

So maybe now we're just going to coast to the end and, and, and I was very wrong, but you know. 

Jen: Yeah, that's definitely, that's definitely true. Her other books are. Like, character and then a bit of plot at the end. Like, I remember talking to you about, um, A Court of Thorns and Roses, and I can't remember why we're, we're talking about it, but you're kind of like, oh, is this everything that happens in this book?

And I got my copy and I flicked through it and I was like, the things that I remember that happen in this book, and I say it's about, start at chapter like 33, and I [00:15:00] was like, And that's just the end, but I'm like, so much happens. House of Sky and Breath is definitely paced a lot better, um, the only kind of criticism I have on that is I feel like everything's a little bit too epic, like, it's giving Dragonball Z vibes, you know, you can only destroy the world so many times, um, it can only get bigger

The last thing was like, Oh, interdimensional, we're going to bring in lots of other things. And that is a really big thing to get to, but where can you go from there? You have to separate in the next book back out to the other world. So it's going to be a huge tonal pacing drop. And I wonder how it's going to try and build up the energy to another form of like another crescendo that's at least on par with the second book.

Cause how do you, [00:16:00] where do you go from that? 

Ellie: Okay. So, okay, great. You, you, you brought up the multiple worlds before I did, so I can now talk about it. So I, when I finished the book yesterday, I made some sort of noise cause Carl was like, are you okay? Like he was in the other room and I was like, yeah, I'm fine.

Um, because like, I really, I don't know how I feel about multi universe stuff. And at first I was like maybe I feel like okay about this because all of the other series and like worlds and characters are so kind of like well developed and it doesn't and and the way that the way that Sarah J Maas has kind of structured this isn't just like and now this character randomly ends up in this other world.

There's kind of a point to it all, like the Esteri have been purposely drawing powerful [00:17:00] beings from other worlds to feed on, to like build the nice little animal farm. So like, it has a solid base and yet, like, I think I feel like when this happens, It almost, yeah, undermines everything that's already happened in the other worlds in their own book.

Like the other storylines, these huge epic stories that I've read in our other series. I don't want them to be shrunken by now becoming part of this like multi universe thing. I don't know if I'm describing that well. 

Jen: No, I, I, I get what you mean and I completely agree with you. Um, usually I'm anti multiverse books, um, I don't think they work.

I, I do hope this is going to be better because we have the established characters and worlds, but also there's this constant [00:18:00] problem that in fiction, like fiction worlds obviously aren't real worlds, the world and the challenges are created specifically to challenge the main character and their assumptions about themselves and about the world around them.

So we have. Three different worlds that were created specifically for three main characters to navigate that are integral to their stories. And now what we're saying is all of those somehow have to mesh together to actually be Bryce's world while still maintaining integrity for Feyre and, uh, Aelin. And it's like, I don't think that's possible.

I feel like it's going to end up feeling like the other world. Like. Okay, I'm assuming Toronto Glass gets pulled into this as well. It's not confirmed for this. I'm assuming, I'm assuming 

Ellie: that's where the shifters come from, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jen: Um, but, um, yeah, I, I'm worried it's going to turn into kind of just character Easter eggs.[00:19:00] 

Like Bryce is here and she opened the door and look, it's Rowan. Oh my God. Rowan leaves. Who's the next guy? And it's like, I, I don't want that to happen. 

Ellie: Yeah. 

Jen: Yeah. So yeah, 

Ellie: I'm, I'm concerned. I'm both like concerned, but then also had amazing moments of being like, Oh my God. And like, what about like the witches in Crescent City?

Are they related to the witches in throne of glass? Like, are they part of the like, who's wearing the red cloaks, the crowns? 

Jen: Yeah. Or are they iron teeth? Well, they're obviously not iron teeth. Could they have descended from them? And all these changes and stuff. Are the Valgh there? Like where are the Valgh?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. 

Ellie: Like, are they a different, are they a different Hel? Like, Amrun from 

Jen: Hel? Cause she was a big winged demon first. 

Ellie: Oh, and I thought, was she, cause she like said that she didn't feel like. Sentient or whatever that she was kind of created to [00:20:00] like protect a place. I was like, was she created by the estuary to like just kind of like watch over the quote unquote flock of people food?

Jen: Well, so I was aiming more for help for her because she makes a comment about how her like her, her father or her creator. Knew that she was different and gave her an opportunity to leave. Oh. Um, which sounds more, which would like align more with the Prince of Hell than something else. So 

Ellie: yeah. Oh yeah, basically, yeah.

Like, so this has been going through my head yesterday. I have not had a chance to, in fairness to Sarah J Maas. I now want to go back and reread. At least Akatar, to like, refresh my memory on the different, yeah, she's done a good job of making you want to like, just constantly read her books. 

Jen: Though I have to say, okay, when this [00:21:00] book came out, everyone was suddenly saying Massiverse confirmed, they're all connected.

It gets confirmed in the last throne of glass book and this wrecks my head. Yes. It's so like, come on. It was, it was there all along. 

Ellie: It was there all along, but I, I had kind of hoped, so yes, it's in the last throne of glass book. I had kind of hoped that that was, that was the holy strike, that Aelin falling through the worlds and seeing what was probably whoever on a cliff, like whichever characters from Akatar.

I was just like, cool. That's a nice little nod. But it's not going to get any more connected than that. That was what I had kind of, in that moment, I was like, cool. That's why everyone's like, yeah, confirmed. But like, it's not actually going to be a thing. So now I'm kind of, 

Jen: yeah, no, no, it's definitely going to be like a main plot point.

Ellie: Yeah, like we immediately jumped to the end because it is the most dramatic. 

Jen: Yeah, yeah. 

Ellie: It changes, it [00:22:00] changes everything. But, but we should probably rein it back a bit. Yeah, 

Jen: yeah. 

Ellie: And like talk about the like 98 percent of the book that happened before then. 

Jen: Okay, fair, fair. I guess. 

Ellie: I guess we'll 

Jen: talk about the book 

Ellie: that, that happened.

So we meet a lot of new characters in this book, like we have Bryson Hunt, or not even just new characters, but characters evolve a lot more. So the ones that have kind of been alluded to, they kind of become more dimensional. So I guess the most dramatic entrance to start off with is Cormac. 

Jen: Yes. Good old Cormac.

Ellie: Yes. New Shadow Daddy. 

Jen: God. Oh my god. I, 

Ellie: I, I hate that, that phrase personally. I just can't do it, but you know. 

Jen: I hate the phrase Shadow Daddy. I also hate in these books where she uses names that are just names of people I know. I know multiple people called Cormac and it's just, it's like, Okay. Yeah. I feel like Cormac [00:23:00] is actually, he's a great kind of example of.

Isolated example of stuff that she's doing with all different characters in this book. He fits in like a lot of the themes that you have this character appear who people dislike for good reason. Um, but it turns out he has ulterior motives that are actually positive. To you, he has a more complex world himself, like frequently the baddies are the people who just disagree with the main characters are very one dimensional and they might have one, like, like this is just a book criticism in general, frequently they're written as one dimensional or they'll have like one thing that you're like, Oh, they saved the cat.

Therefore I'm supposed to like them. Whereas Cormac is actually shown to. Um, have bad sides and have good sides, be complex, have his own inter, interior world. And the main characters have to try and get past their initial assumptions of him and decide whether or not they [00:24:00] trust him. And I feel like that's something that's mirrored in a lot of the relationships in this book in particular.

Cause we have like Celestina comes in as a new archangel and she seems warm and kind, but can you trust somebody who's like that? We also see gross with the awesome king, that he reveals a number of things that you're like, Oh wow, he actually has more depth to him. Is he someone who like, sure, he's never going to be a nice person, but is he as evil as they seem to like to think?

And then of course, uh, there's the hind who, okay. First of all, I'm still annoyed at H Squad. I don't like they all have names that start with H's. It annoys me. But second of all, it was so obvious that Dave Wright was the Hind and the Hind was a rebel. And I called it from the first bloody scene she's in with Sophie Renast, I'm like, how is this?

How is [00:25:00] this a secret? Really? Yeah. 

Ellie: Okay. No, I did not call it that early. 

Jen: I kind of dismissed it. I was like, Oh, she's like, when I saw that it's like, Oh, she usually likes to torture people, but she's going to just chuck her in the sea. And I was like, Oh yeah, that's because she's a rebel and she doesn't want Sophie actually revealing anything.

I was like, no, no, no. Okay. I'll just, I'll put that aside. And then after another few chapters, I was like, yeah, no, a hundred percent. She's daybright. Like there's has to be. No way. 

Ellie: Oh, I did not. No. Yeah. It was definitely. Like, I hadn't decided if it was her or, like, somebody like the harpy. Hmm. Yeah. There was also one moment where, um, I don't actually, I don't know, now I don't know if it was the hind or the harpy who kind of mockingly called, called Hunt, Hunter, because he was like supposed to be the hunter.

And he was like, I refuse. To be caught, like be brought into the H [00:26:00] squad, basically like my name does begin with H, but I refuse to be the something, the H er, like I am not the hunter. I am just hunt. That did make me smile because I, I, I have heard, like, I remember being like, why is it all H's? And I also experienced of being like tripping over, especially when they're all introduced in the beginning.

And then like, they're interchangeably referred to as like, The Hellhound, Baxian, or like, but yeah, it was obvious. It was a little obvious that Agent Daybright was going to be someone we already knew. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Ellie: At least. Like I know you got the Heinz right away, but it was very obvious that it was going to be, okay, it's going to be like one of like these potential three characters.

Jen: Yeah. It has to, like, the options you have is it has to be Celestina, the Hein, the Harpy, or potentially the sister Asteri who is not actually dead. Which is what I was kind of hoping, because that would have been cooler. Oh, 

Ellie: that would have been [00:27:00] cooler, actually. 

Jen: Yeah. Yeah, hypoxia, but I feel like she probably wasn't high up 

Ellie: enough.

Well, before we learned about her tutors being dead people from the past, I wondered if her mother had sent her, because like, All she said was that she learned from very old beings. I think at one point that was all we kind of knew. I had wondered if her mother had sent her off to the Asteri to be like, go pretend to be loyal and learn all you can from them.

That was where I'd originally thought, but then we learned that they were just like old dead people that are brought back to teach her. So then I was like, Oh, I guess not. Um, but basically, basically everything we're saying right now is that. Um, I think one of the huge themes of this book is just the like, yeah, complexity of people and like, who can you trust truly?

Jen: And one of the things I quite like about it, there's actually effort put into both Hunt and the Rebels. We see like in the first book that Hunt [00:28:00] is very, he's, he's like remorseful about what happened when he rebelled and he doesn't want to start going down that route too much. I know he does like do the betrayal, but then he tries to get out of it and tries to undo it.

Um, And then in this book, he's very anti getting in with the rebels and it feels like there's actually like work to make him realistic. Somebody who has actually really suffered from something that he had tried to do and failed and is slowly realizing that lots of the things that they tried to do were actually kind of wrong.

Like the, the big thing was good, but like his relationship with Shahar was terrible and all the things that he had staked his life on aren't worth it. So it's really realistic that he's so anti the rebellion, but he still has the same values that brought him to rebel. Um, and then you see the rebels themselves and Ophion and I love how, uh, so at the start of the book, it talks about how it's, it's like essentially [00:29:00] all sleeper cells that barely know each other and you have something like that and you have something that's completely uncentralized and that means that any faction.

can be on any level of rebellion. Some of them will be good people who are doing good things and some of them will be terrible people because they could do terrible things and this is just their excuse. And most people will be somewhere in between. Um, and you get to see that the rebels, even though their cause is right, like with Pippa, their cause is right.

They're doing terrible things and it doesn't excuse them just because their cause is right. And I, I really liked that it's showing the dimension of. The rebels and of the group because frequently, frequently groups are shown as monoliths and it's like, no, they're, they're all individuals on different levels of, of like the, the spectrum of agreement and they're working together in some way.

And I feel like this book really done a good job of bringing so much of that together. 

Ellie: [00:30:00] Like, I can't actually remember who says it, but somebody says, like, that they don't agree with the rebels, but they're the only ones doing the thing. And that, that was like very much that kind of case of like, no one else is stepping up to do it and it needs to be done, but they're not necessarily the right people for the job or the ones, the ones who are the most zealous are the ones that kind of come to the fore and Yeah, yeah.

It was also really interesting kind of hearing Hunt's reflections on Shahar and how like Like, the rebellion was coming from him from a place of good, but like, she just completely used him, like completely used him and that kind of reflecting on that versus his like, I guess now relationship 200 years later or however long it's been.

Jen: Yeah. I, I really liked that it was showing that, you know, in the first book he's so madly in love [00:31:00] with Shahar and she, she was perfection and he'll never love anyone like that again. And he's learning that like. You loved Shahar, and she needed a really cool general who was a pretty guy. And it's like, yeah, that was kind of like, she, she never showed affection in the relationship.

It was all kind of regimented. And it's like, oh, it is like you're looking back at it in two years, 200 years of like rose tinted glasses and now learning that actually that's not what that was. Yeah. Kind of sad for him. Poor guy. Yeah. 

Ellie: Oh. The pain I feel on my heart front is, is unhealthy, but I get very attached to my book characters.

Jen: The poor boy. Um, so, because we're talking about characters, let's talk about another character. That's how segues work. Danica. I'm very torn on [00:32:00] the use of Danica in these books. On one hand I like that essentially Danica should have been the main character who dies and the like side character of Bryce kind of gets shoved into Being the main character and figuring it out and I really like that.

What I don't like is that Danica seems to also just be a deus ex machina for anything we need to happen in the book. It's like something needs to be revealed, well Danica already done that so we don't have to do anything. Characters need to learn something, need to go somewhere, need an ally, need a such and such.

It's always, Oh yeah, Danica already done that and it's set up and you're going to find papers in her drawer or find her ex boyfriend or find this kind of stuff. And it's like, just feels a little too, it's the get out of jail free card for plot. 

Ellie: Yeah. 

Jen: Like, 

Ellie: yeah, I agree a little bit. I think that it can definitely still be used.[00:33:00] 

but it was like the only thing that kind of drove the plot forward the whole time. Yeah, there needed to be a couple of, a couple of the, the things that led them to do things needed to have been through their own decisions as opposed to just, yeah, and Danica went here, so now I am going to go here. Um, also the like, like I really, really liked how in the first book it was like Bryce's heartbreak was like so deep, like for a friend, like I found that a really moving and like, well played out, like heartbreak.

Um, because so often it's just like romantic love and not. That kind of friend, fam, familial, that realm. So I feel like, like Danica needs to rest a little bit. 

Jen: Yeah. 

Ellie: Like if she keeps, if it's just constantly, yeah, for me to still appreciate [00:34:00] how that story went and how the first book went, it can't all just be, and I will continue to follow in Danica's footsteps.

I don't know. I don't feel like I'm saying it very well, but yeah, you probably get the idea. 

Jen: Yeah, like I have, I actually have a note from the start of the book where I was like, Oh, I really like that. You know, Danica, they're still finding things out about Danica, like she's the main character who died.

And then I have a note from later on the book going like, Oh God, like, is it still only Danica pushing the plot? And it is like, yeah, like a, like a little bit of difference there. So I do have to say, Rune's lip ring was mentioned so many times. Oh, so many times. Like, is that his entire personality? Are we going to find out that the lip ring is actually like an artifact that that alone can kill the Asteri?

Like, 

Ellie: If he chews on it once more.

Jen: Is [00:35:00] it going to be a case that when the worlds combine the only way that people can tell And Rune, apart, is the lip ring, and then they like sometimes pretend to be each other. Uh, well no, the bat 

Ellie: wings. 

Jen: But, but Rhys can get rid of his bat wings. Oh yeah, of course he can. Yeah, so there is definitely going to be a fanfic at some point, if this doesn't happen in the main one, where the two of them switch places and like go to high school or something.

Oh God, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I mean, that one like stood out to me because I don't actually ever imagine characters with physical descriptions in my head. I don't see characters. Fan art really annoys me because I'm like, these people don't have faces. Like, in my brain every character is an amorphous blob of personality, potentially with like one physical feature.

So when you have a physical feature mentioned consistently, it really just [00:36:00] kind of like clangs with my idea of a character because I'm like, this human doesn't have skin. It's like, yeah, I think most humans have skin. It's like, okay, okay. Okay. They haven't got a face. 

Ellie: That's funny. Yeah. Now that you say that, like some of my characters are very amorphous blobs and some of them are more specific.

It kind of varies. character to character, but like it doesn't vary in regard, like it's not uniform to, oh it's a main character so I have lots of detail. No, no, no. Bryce is probably way more amorphous blob in my head than she should be compared to like Hypoxia. I don't know, like that's so, uh, that's funny.

Yeah. 

Jen: Okay, so I think one of the reasons overall with this book that I didn't connect to hugely is the I guess the, the, the main overarching plot point in the book is, you know, when souls [00:37:00] die, they don't actually get to live in Bone Quarter, which is, you know, heaven, um, they get used up again as second light.

And this is horrifying and then the Asteri actually live on First Light and Second Light and this is horrifying. Both of those things were things I did not connect with or consider should have been a big deal. 

Ellie: Hmm. 

Jen: So. Like, on the second light thing, that's essentially just, just what happens, and I know this is just like the Raging Atheist to me, is when you, you die, you just die, if you don't believe in heaven, your, your body returns to the ground, energy turns into other energy.

The world continues. And if that's your view, and you're reading a book that they're like, but heaven doesn't exist. And that's the biggest plot point of the entire book is that there might be a different heaven, but the heaven we know of isn't heaven. It's kind of like. And? And then on the First Light, [00:38:00] everything in their world runs on First Light.

They already have this agreement in place on their day to day that they give First Light to get things back. Then they find out that the Asteri use First Light to do things. How is, like, yes, we have a world that was created as their food source, yes, that's all so horrifying, but like, there's such a focus on the First Light that I'm kind of like, so what?

That's kind of, you, you do that too, you use First Light to go out raving, how is that different? Like, you know, obviously the whole enslavement stuff, but you know, the actual usage of First Light to do things is, it's just accepted in the world. So why is it so? Yeah, I, I think 

Ellie: a bigger emphasis possibly should have been put on, or like maybe like explained more like how much of the first light goes to the Asteri versus the running of the world.

Like if it's like 90 percent of the first light [00:39:00] just goes to the Asteri and 10 percent like runs the whole world, then it could be like, Oh, whoa, getting the kind of sheer volume of power and numbers might've like made that feel a bit different. I think for me, but also I think for me when, but kind of the second light was the like disturbing bit and then the, like a starry living on first light that was more like, Oh, so they can be killed more easily than we knew how to like, or now we know how to kill them.

And then the farming is kind of horrific, but yeah, yeah, I, I didn't have as I like. Yeah. Then feeding on the first light didn't feel bad in one sense. Yeah. Because that is just their power source. I think it's more impactful on like how much they control everybody to do that or like, I don't know. Yeah.

Jen: Yeah. Like the Asteria themselves are [00:40:00] terrible, but I feel like that's separate from first light usage. 

Ellie: Yeah. 

Jen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just, it just kind of clanged. It did. It just didn't work for me. Yeah. 

Ellie: The second light hit me more than it hit you, I think, because I can, like, not that I am religious, but I could see, I could see and believe that shock more of like, you think that your loved ones are being like taken care of, but no, they're just being.

Like, zapped and powering your toaster. Like, I, I, I can understand not wanting your, not wanting that. 

Jen: I'm sorry, that just gave me the mental image of someone like putting on toast and being like, this one's for you, grandpa. 

Ellie: This one is you, grandpa. 

Jen: And also, so you're saying like the farming is, is, is horrifying.

One of the things I really didn't like on the reveal in the [00:41:00] archives. Was, um, the way that the Asteri had written notes about what they were doing, it felt so unrealistic. It felt like it was, it was written as exposition for a novel as opposed to being something that they would have written. There's a part where they specifically talk about like, Oh, we have like captured our prey now.

And it's like, you know, you, they wouldn't call. The veneer prey, like we, we don't refer to chickens as prey. It is what they are and we farm them, but well, humans farm them, but, um, don't refer to them as prey. The Asteri would be above considering themselves on the same plane of predator prey to actually refer to the veneer as prey.

Like they could just call them a food source. They could call them livestock. They could, there's like lots of terms you could use. That seems more realistic [00:42:00] like vocab wise for the Asteri if they're talking to each other and to themselves than Frey. I'm also I guess interested that they 

Ellie: don't have their own language but maybe that is actually what Bryce and everyone speaks.

When Bryce travels to the Akatar world she has to draw on like her knowledge of having learned ancient Fae. To converse with Armin and I think Rhys does understand a bit of it as well. Anyway, yeah, I guess in relation to it all just kind of being open and accessible and readable for Bryce, the way you can excuse it is, well, this was all just part of Regulus's plan to like have to just kind of lure her in and bring her there and be like, now I shall use you the horn.

But then again, Well, no. I was gonna say he could have just like captured her and spun a different tale, but she just knew too much already. I don't know. I don't know. 

Jen: The last book and [00:43:00] this book are very heavy on their villain monologuing. And, like, it gets lampshaded in this book, uh, but that doesn't excuse it.

It gets lampshaded? What does that mean? So, lampshading, it's, uh, it's more commonly referred to for, like, movies and TV shows. You know, in like, Like old comedies where somebody's in a room and they need to, to hide them and they can't get them out of the room. So they had them stand in the corner and they throw a lampshade on their head and everyone pretends that it's, he's not there.

It's a lampshade. So when you do something in, um, like dialogue or whatever. That is obviously one thing and then you have a character comment on how it's that thing to make it better. That's referred to as lampshading. So like if somebody makes a sexist joke and then another character goes, well that was sexist and then continue on without, like they're just commenting on that.

So there's like instances in this [00:44:00] where. I haven't highlighted, it's kind of like, Oh, you're going to tell me your, your big plan. Mike had done this to me like last year. 

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that as well. And it's 

Jen: like, yeah. Could like you having the character call out that it's happened twice doesn't mean you don't have to try and find a better device to convey this, you know?

Ellie: Like as soon as you said I'm a bit highlighted, I was like, I know exactly 

Jen: what you're talking about. And like the underking does it as well. He's villain monloguing. And I, uh, when they, they go to the bone quarter. And, um, I've put a thing, it's like, uh, why is he telling them all this? He's just probably going to try and kill them now.

And then it's like, and I will try and kill you. And it's like, come on guys. But, 

Ellie: I guess, speaking of bad guys monologuing and trying to kill the good guys, we should probably get to us trying to survive some challenges, seeing as that's the whole premise. 

Jen: Okay. Okay. So. First challenge. 

Ellie: Okay, so I think, [00:45:00] um, it kind of crops up in like several different battles, mini little fight scenes is learning to use your powers, learning to use Bryce's powers.

And we have a nice little follow up question of, would you be happy to get shot with lightning to power up and, and yeah, to save the world. And I think there's three kind of mini, like, fights in the book sent from different, uh, good or bad guys, depending on how far through the book you are, um, to quote unquote help Bryce, uh, learn her powers and prepare for the big bads.

Um, so we have the Reapers. That she then through that learns that the, the sword, what's it called? Star sword. Star sword. Star sword. Thank you. Uh, can kill Reapers when she channels her power through it. We then have the Deathstalker demons that attack her and [00:46:00] Hypaxia and Ethan. And then we have the fluffy, the three headed dog in the Bone Quarter.

Definitely not its name, but when it was revealed that I had three heads, that's immediately what I pictured. So 

Jen: of course, yeah, um, so 

Ellie: there was actually also one bit that I would definitely have loved, which is the bit in the like ox training facility where they set up just obstacle courses and I'm like, yeah, give me that all day montage training sequences in like gymnasiums with obstacle courses.

Is my heaven. So that bitch tick. No problem. We're doing that. It's done. 

Jen: Yeah. So actually like learning to use the power. In the book, it gets breadcrumbed very early that this is something that she'll be able to do, like it's kind of introduced in the ballet opera thing when she's with her parents and it's like, Oh, okay, he's going to be able to do that, but kind of have to assume if you were Bryce, you wouldn't really have caught that because that's normal life instead of breadcrumbing.[00:47:00] 

Yeah, it's, I can't remember how to, how does she get to the point where she's like, Oh, actually. I should get shot with lightning because I know that they first really do it when they're in the bone quarter, but like, I can't remember how she comes to the conclusion that this is going to be the way to like power her off.

Ellie: So in the bone quarter. She realizes that the gate there is kind of like the reverse of the other gates and that it zapped it like sucks the energy out and so I think like Hunt pushes off of it and is like drained a bit or whatever and then. Through that she has a eureka moment about herself being a gate or she's referred to or something.

Okay. And therefore Hunt goes to like strike Fluffy with lightning and she jump, she purposely jumps in front of him and is like, I think I can channel this. 

Jen: Ooh. 

Ellie: And just does it. It's 

Jen: going a lot of faith. [00:48:00] Yeah. Ah. I mean, like, if you're going to die anyways, which is what they would have. Yeah. Hmm. I don't think I'd make that leap of faith of, hmm, I might be slightly similar to this thing maybe and go instantly into jump in front of lightning.

That's I need a little bit more evidence. I hope there 

Ellie: wasn't more evidence that I'm currently forgetting, but I think that was the like. Yeah. I 

Jen: mean, there's also, that's what I'm remembering, the point of like, she knows that her getting hit with magic, if it hits Luna's horn will open a portal. So not only might you just get electrocuted and die, you might also open a portal to hell.

Like, those are really high stakes. 

Ellie: Cause I was going to say hypoxia would have been like a less intense version because just healing magic that she like pulses into Bryce's chest. 

Jen: Yeah. If you're going to like try this out, you try [00:49:00] it out with healing magic. You don't try it out with lighting. 

Ellie: Yes. But that's what she used to teleport as opposed to Bryce just chatteled.

The, well maybe, okay, so maybe it was because she channeled her light through the sword and the light got like a power up to kill the reapers that it was like, okay, and now if I channel the lightning through the sword, the sword would get a different kind of power up to chop the bad dog. 

Jen: See, this is the problem with having read this book like two, three months ago.

It's like, ah! 

Ellie: Well, I only read that section like three days ago, but it's just such a big book. Like 800 pages is just. It's just chunky. Yeah. Okay. If 

Jen: we're working on the star sword channeling stuff, that is definitely more of a thing. Like after the first one, I feel like I would definitely be more comfortable being like, yeah, okay, this works.

Let's see how far it can work, especially if you have the veneer like, uh, sorry, the veneer, um, healing powers. Yes, [00:50:00] 

Ellie: and I think also a prince of hell at that point had told them to combine their powers. 

Jen: Ah, okay. Yes. Okay. I'll put myself down as a maybe. If, if, maybe. Sorry, I just don't want to get hit by lightning and potentially open a portal to hell.

I know, I know, I'm ridiculous. I would just, I'd die in this world. What about you? Do you think you'd, you'd figure it out? Oh, well, figure it out is Okay, do you think you'd 

Ellie: do it? Like, maybe? The scars you get from lightning strikes are cool. They are so cool. 

Jen: So, sorry, just a quick aside. I think at the very end, there's a comment about Rune having these tattoos to cover up his scars and you cannot tattoo over scars.

You can't tattoo over scar tissue. It doesn't work. God damn it. There you go. 

Ellie: Really? 

Jen: Because when scars form different layers of skin knit together, tattooing goes down to a certain layer of skin for it to stay. So if you're doing it over the scar, it doesn't know what. [00:51:00] Like it, it's such a variance that some bits will leak and some bits will go in and some bits just won't cover.

So you can't have a. Tattoo over scars, at least not like, at least not really bad scars. Like if you have like a tiny little line, it's probably fine. But if you have like scars that are really big, you can't tattoo on them. 

Ellie: Basically the whole powering up it's, I think it's a big maybe like if you feel like you're going to die anyway.

And this Eureka moment hits you. Yeah. Kind of go for it. Maybe. Yeah. Our second challenge and the kind of very like physical style of challenges, um, that we, that we go for is out on the island destroying the mech suits and portraying the rebels. Because that's, that's a pretty, that's a big, big decision. 

Jen: I think given what we know about Pippa, especially.

[00:52:00] What Bryce definitely knows, like, they think that a lot of the, the murders that are happening are due to them, but it might be Emile, but they're not 100 percent sure, but they're, they're figuring it out. Whereas Bryce really knows that that's like Pippa. I would definitely, like, I, I wouldn't give them the mech suit.

Even if it meant that I had to die, because I don't, it's like, would you give this group of people a nuke? And it's like, no, 100 percent no, I like, I, I don't know how I would stop them, but I would do everything I could to stop them. Yeah. I'd like to think if I was in that situation and had like my crew around me with their magic powers and stuff that I would also make the choice of let's destroy these things and then run and see how it goes.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah, the rebels having those suits was not, it was not the answer at all. Yeah, I agree. Cannot, cannot leave them with these new [00:53:00] magic mech suits that can just draw the first light out of the ground. It's really interesting actually, now talking about that, the Esteri have designed a mech suit.

like that though, because surely they would want as few things interfering with their first light, like power lines as possible. Like maybe the technology in that is going to come back in a future book to be like, and now we're going to like stop all of the first light from reaching the eternal city. By, well actually, so that, that is immediately what I thought Bryce was going to just like draw all of the power away that are like, that's my like future prediction.

Yeah, like she's, it's 

Jen: her job. Kind of become a fake Asterix. So she's, she can draw it from them and become their equal. Yes. Yeah. That, that sounds very possible. 

Ellie: Yes. As I guess again, get drawn off topic, but. 

Jen: The whole thing on why would the Asterix make something that draws on the [00:54:00] first light. That just ties back into, if it's their food source and they care so much about it and it's such a big deal, why do they run all the cities on First Light?

You know, it's, I, I, I think the whole first light powering the yestery beyond it being an obvious, now they have a power source that we can remove for it being like an actual thing. I don't, I just don't think works. Like everyone uses it. It's used in the war. It's, it's shipped all over the place. It's essentially.

Electricity or trees, like it's everywhere and it's weird that they're using it. I mean, I could totally see if you want to say like, this is a carbon output parallel, you probably could. Uh, you know, the, the top 1 percent uses 90 percent of the shit, but even then it's, I didn't, yeah, sorry. Going off topic again.

Ellie: Okay. We've destroyed the mech suits. [00:55:00] Hopefully we're not getting shot. And we're legging it. 

Jen: So this is not an official challenge, um, and it's just an add on that I want to say on this is when you're running away from destroying the suits and they go on the water and then they end up with like the ocean queen.

I personally would have just died rather than jump into deep water and hope for the best. I am terrified of deep water. Um, I think it's called tesla phobia. Cannot do it. Cannot do it. If I had the chance of like, you'll be tortured to death or you have to jump into this really deep water. Like, pool and hope you don't drown, it would be a, like, a serious consideration for me.

So I'm not sure I would have done the, Oh, 

Ellie: done the jump. 

Jen: No. No. Maybe someone pushed me. Then I would 

Ellie: have survived. I'll just, I'll just drag you with me. I'll drag you with me. It's fine. I've, I've jumped off of lots of cliffs, as is my role as the insane one of the group. 

Jen: Yeah. No, no. Yeah. Sorry. I just, I just wanted to [00:56:00] put that in there in case it's like, Oh, well, you know, obviously you wouldn't let the baddies have a mech suit and it's like, yeah, but I feel like I would actually do something there.

I feel like I would also just die because I wouldn't jump into water. So just being honest here. 

Ellie: Um, we're going to have to cook you some time. They have literal diving boards off the cliffs. We'll have great fun. 

Jen: Cool. I will, I will watch you do that. 

Ellie: Okay, but truly, truly the big, the big moment, and really there's like multiple layers.

We've already actually talked about this, um, in multiple different ways through the book discussion and the challenges just now, but like the big main challenge is the break into the archives at the end. So, part one, the distraction. 

Jen: Yeah, so the, the first part being Cormac and Taryon, um, breaking into the place slightly off site to blow it up, to bring the Ysteria over there.

That is something I actually think I would [00:57:00] have. Trouble doing, look at, look at my ID. Why won't you let me through? I would not be good at that. I would just, I'd panic, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, no, it's fine, it's fine. Even when I'm allowed in places and I need to show ID, like I'm, every single time I go through passport control, I'm like, no, no, it's okay, it's okay, I have a passport and it's fine.

I don't have any. So yeah, I don't think I could 

Ellie: do that. I think that the whole breaking and distraction. Only works because Cormac is part of it and because he has done so much rebel activity already. So if you or I were thrown into that situation, we could only be the Tharion of the group. Like we are the be like the pretty people 

Jen: here and there to support everyone else.

Ellie: We're, we're, we're badass in our own ways, but we don't have the experience. We need the experienced guy to make it plausible for this to even go down. 

Jen: Definitely. 

Ellie: Um, okay. Make it in. Karma blows up [00:58:00] the place. We like it. Actually, like, I guess part of this as well is like. So much of the book is, like, how far will you go for your freedom and the idea of freedom.

Because Tarion legs it, and like, I'm remembering this now, because like, Tarion legs it. 

Jen: That's because he's not in the water. So he legs it. Sorry, that was a really bad mermaid joke. So 

Ellie: he legs it. Nice, nice, nice, Jen. Um, but yeah, because it reminds me that you can hear the Viper Queen in his head. That surprised me that he went and like he had to do something like the whole book was building up to him doing something and I guess that kind of like is the arc of desperation but I don't know if I would have sold myself to her to escape that situation.

Jen: Yeah. Did it say what he didn't kind of [00:59:00] just join the ocean queen instead? Uh, 

Ellie: he 

Jen: went to got to her in time. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, instead of. Like, he kind of goes to the, the river queen and is like, Hey, I don't want to be with your daughter. She doesn't want to be with me. Let's go do stuff. And then she like freaks out.

Like, instead of going and having this really weird confrontation that you know is going to end badly, you could have written her a note and been like, Hey, let's call this off and then gone to the ocean queen. Yeah. I think it's because he still 

Ellie: wanted to like, be part of the archives, still wanted to like stick around for his friends.

Yeah. I don't know. I feel, I feel, I feel like in the run up to the archives, everyone kind of had that moment of like, Oh crap, better get my life in order. And his was, Oh, there's the princess. I'm gonna tell her it's over, and now I've got less than 30 minutes to try and figure out how I'm not going to be sucked back into the river.[01:00:00] 

Jen: Yeah. Bad decisions. Bad choices. 

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah. Like, the moment presented itself. He did it without really thinking it through, and then was like, and now, how do I survive? 

Jen: Yeah. Um, okay, so assuming. Make those bad choices and end up in that position. I don't know if I've, like, It's just a different form of enslavement.

I think the question there is, What kind of enslavement do you prefer? Yeah. Because you're gonna be underwater, And, I don't know, Tortured or have to marry the river queen's daughter, Or both, Or you're above ground, And then you have to murder people. In, like, the ring, like, the 

Ellie: Yeah, it's just, your, your experience at one place just gets so bad that you'll do anything to, to leave it.

Even if it's not necessarily, you're jumping from one frying pan into another. 

Jen: Yeah, it's also a lot [01:01:00] more, yeah, it's more human and selfish to go to the Viper Queen because instead of you necessarily being the one who's gonna get hurt the most in this situation, you decide to hurt someone else instead for your own freedom.

Ellie: And to figure out the consequences later. 

Jen: Yeah, I don't know if I'd be like, quick thinking enough to be like, I've got 30 minutes to figure out exactly how to fix this situation. I'd actually. Do it in those 30 minutes, even if that's what I wanted to do, but yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't know what I'd do in that situation.

Ellie: I am excited to, I guess, see more of the Viper Queen of her to become a more fleshed out character and to like. Yeah, if she is good or bad, she doesn't seem great, but anyway, um, so we're through the distraction of surviving is mostly just about supporting Cormac self destructing. So I guess, I guess we survive, [01:02:00] um, as for the break in itself in, in one sense, it goes very smoothly in the books.

Yes. In another sense that is intentional because the setup regulars wants them that, yeah, set up. It's a trap. 

Jen: Yeah. So, I mean, I could probably walk into a trap. Yeah. I'd probably get lost in the archives, being honest with you. Even if they set it up. Like, I'm the kind of person when I play video games and they're like, obviously turn to the left.

I miss it. And I'm like, I went to the right and now I'm stuck in this stupid area for the last 20 minutes. And everyone's like, Jen, you just go for the giant flashing door on the left. I'm like, oh, thanks. So yeah, I'd probably need Regulus to appear with the giant arrow. But once he done that, I would. Find the archive.

Ellie: You would walk into the trap. Nice. 

Jen: After he made the trap more obvious so I could find it, I would walk in. Um, 

Ellie: how rare, I must go back and read again, like how rare the teleportation, uh, ability [01:03:00] is. Although then again, I guess they, Cormac or someone says like, it's so, uh, arrogant of the Asteri to not have words up against it, but basically it definitely makes it far more, uh, doable.

Like, and now I'm going to like, jump through space and time and land over here and walk through this door. Like, if I can teleport, great. I am getting in and reading those books. 

Jen: You know what that made me think? Space and time. Teleportation is the ability to move, go through space, which frequently gets collated physics wise to being time as well.

Bryce, when she's super powered, can jump through time. 

Ellie: Oh. Oh, whoa. Did she then go back and tell Danica what she has to do? Maybe. Well. Okay, this ties in perfectly then with, we break in, but then we have to escape. 

Jen: [01:04:00] We break in, we get captured, there's the whole hind and room thing, end up in the throne room with Regulus, and then it's like we have to try and get out.

Yeah. Ooh. And in doing so. abandon your mate and your brother to whatever fate that they're going to have. 

Ellie: It's a very similar, it's happened in both of her other books, this like going, going off to do the higher good, not going down the other books thing again, just popped into my head before it happened to other characters.

Anyway, it's not an easy call basically, especially as well, it's her first time actually using the horn. To, to create a portal. So I guess it makes sense that it didn't actually go to where she planned in a way. 

Jen: So I saw this thing, which raises questions in my mind, um, I was looking up a summary of this book to help write our summary of this book.

And they said that there [01:05:00] was a mention of. The horn kind of like brings you back home, essentially, and that's the reason that Bryce ends up in Akita world because she's one of their Fae, but that like raises the question for me when Micah used the horn. To open a portal. It went directly to hell. Are the angels from 

Ellie: Hell?

Yeah. Oh, ooh. , you're right. Like that is, I'd forgotten. Yeah. About not forgotten, but so much in my brain to process from finishing this book. Oh, yeah. The, the, the, the whole, the bit about the horn being given to the Faye to bring them over because the Faye didn't recognize. as having once been the bad guys.

So here is the horn to travel over to this new world. And of course, I guess it would lead you back as well. So on our first attempt, it just brought her home as opposed to knowing yet [01:06:00] how to like send yourself into specific places. I am just so many questions. On the challenge. Of escaping. 

Jen: Like, do you think you could?

Do you think you would do that? 

Ellie: Like, is leaving them both really the only option? That's hard. Hmm. I don't know. But then again, you don't want to give Regulus the horn, aka the slab of meat on your back. Like, it both has to happen. I don't know if I could do it. Both, like, emotionally and physically dodge all of Regulus's.

Whatever power surges that he was firing at me. I guess all that time in the very fun gymnasium obstacle course prepared for the, like jumping back and forth and back and forth. Um, why she didn't stab him when she jumped behind him before then teleporting to in front of the, like when she appeared behind him for a second, then went forward again, [01:07:00] I was like, no, no, no, you were supposed to hurt him there.

That was my only moment of like, what are you doing? Um, so yeah, whether or not we would successfully escape is such a joint cost size. 

Jen: Yeah, I think we both would do okay on the Resilient stick to itiveness that you'd have to have at that point of just being like, no, I'm going to keep going. I'm not going to quit.

I'm going to just keep going and trying my best to do the thing. But, other than that, I'm not sure. Like, I feel like I would try To save the other people and in doing so completely fuck it up and we all get caught because I wouldn't be like, Oh yeah, I personally will go and let you all like die or be punished, especially for something that's my fault.

You're all in like, even outside of the things that happened to Bryce, the reason they're where they are now is because Bryce essentially pulled them all in [01:08:00] on her scheme and if I was like, Oh, I have got us all into this terrible situation. I can run away and leave, like, my favorite people in the world to die horrible deaths, but I'll be okay and maybe then I'll be able to defeat the big bad.

I would probably be more on the like, no, I'm going to definitely try and get them out, which would fail, but that would be, yeah, more my thing. Oh god, 

Ellie: the emotion of PTSD after that moment is going to be bad. Woooo. So I've been so careful as well, online, trying to avoid everything, Sarah J Maas, Crescent City, whatever, because book three is already out now, but it's also came out recently enough.

So there's still enough stuff going on online about it all. And I'm like, Nope, I don't want spoilers. I don't want spoilers. It's too unpredictable right now. 

Jen: Yeah. That's always the problem with being like a little bit behind. I feel like the olden days where no one online talked [01:09:00] about books till they're like, uh, so it was safe.

Ellie: So I think our survival chances actually in this book are better than they were in the first book. I think in the first book we had a lot more like 30 percent survival chance, where I feel like we're kind of up to like 60 in this one. Okay. Apart from the escape at the end, like we're not, 

Jen: you know. Yeah, I think we would probably follow the last hurdle, and maybe the first hurdle.

We might stumble over the first hurdle of getting shot with lightning. Yes. But all the things in between I think we could do. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe and you can find us on Instagram at ifwesurvivethis. Let us know of any books you'd like us to review. 

Ellie: And our next episode would be David Margot Godhunter, book by Zoe Davies Okungbowa.

See you then. Goodbye. See you in the next [01:10:00] episode.