David Mogo Godhunter

David Mogo Godhunter is the debut novel by Suyi Davies Okungbowa, a godpunk book following David Mogo

Dive into Lagos in the aftermath of the Orisha War where gods and godlings wander freely. David Mogo, a demigod, lives with hiss adoptive father and illegally hunts the gods wreaking havoc on the land.

Jen and Ellie discuss the world and dive into theme, structure, and agency in a world overrun by deities. 

Transcript

IWST_Episode_9_DavidMogoGodhunter
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Jen: [00:00:00] Hi, and welcome to If We Survive This, a podcast where we read fantasy books and discuss how likely we'd be to survive the challenges in them. A quick warning that this podcast is filled with spoilers for all aspects of the book. I'm Jen, the slightly more bookish side of the podcast, though I do have some fitness credentials.

Ellie: And I'm Ellie. I could survive in the wild for weeks, as long as I have a good audiobook. 

Jen: Today we're discussing David Mogo Godhunter by Suyi Davies Okumboa. Let's see if we survive this. The gods have fallen to earth and set up shop in Lagos. With their fall, humans find themselves contending with gods, godlings, and the ability to control their own god essence, a form of magic.

David Mogo is an orishidaji, or demigod. As a baby he was given to a wizard, Papa Udi, to be raised. His mother was an unidentified goddess, which makes him stronger and faster than your average human with a lot more godessence. These are skills he uses to ply a black market [00:01:00] trade removing godlings from the city for exorbitant prices.

David Mogo is approached by Ajala to capture two high gods, Tyro and Kehinde. He reluctantly agrees, but on his first trip he returns with only Tyro captured. Kehinde tracks him to his home and attacks. With the help of Papa Uri, David manages to trap her, and when she comes round, they learn of the mess that they have made.

Ajala is a vessel for Aganju, the god whose rebellion started the Orisha Wars, leading to the gods falling to earth. Aganju is trying to create new gods, using street children, and he needs the twins powers to do this. David Mogo agrees to help free Taiwo and attempts to go back on his deal, only to have Ajala capture him.

He's rescued by Fatumata, sent by Papa Uri, with an augmented charm on her which absorbs godessence around her. They barely survive the attack, with Fatty finding herself possessed by Taiwo and Kahinde in [00:02:00] their attempt to save them. After the attacks, David tries to go back to a normal life, but soon finds that impossible.

Shango, a Ganju's brother, attacks his home, and after losing a fight to the High God, David believes Papa Uri and Fatty to be dead. David wakes up battered and bruised to find himself in a slum after being saved by a young boy. The High God Olokun watches over the slum, and gives David a prophecy on how to defeat a Ganju before demanding he leave.

Soon after, David finds himself in a camp set up in an arena outside Lagos. He finds out that Aganju has created an army of sorts and is slowly expanding his new empire. David convinces the leader of the camp to help him and makes his way to an airport where he's convinced the prophecy will be fulfilled.

At the airport he meets Fati and Papa Udi who have miraculously survived the attack. While here David finally meets his mother Ogun who has been trapped but accidentally released by Aganju's actions. She is the God of [00:03:00] War, and she announces that David is now set to take up her mantle, but she pledges to help him fight in this final battle.

To prepare for the battle, they decide to recruit more gods to their cause, approaching Uziza and Eshu, two trickster gods, and rallying Olukun to their cause. While approaching Olukun, they are ambushed and make a narrow escape. David is filled with his chaotic god essence and lashes out against the others, accusing them of betraying him.

Despite the setbacks, they must fight Aganju, planning for a final battle on a bridge to the mainland. But they are outmaneuvered and David finds himself captured AGAIN and brought to Aganju's palace to be tortured along with the other captives. Just when he thinks all hope is lost, his mother and allies Storm the building, rescuing the survivors, and make it to the gardens for the final battle with a Ganju.

David sacrifices himself to end a Ganju, finding some balance between the war god and his human side. To his surprise, he wakes up several days [00:04:00] later, lying in the ruins of his old house, being tended to by the family that he has created along the way. The main danger is over, and now it's time to see if gods and humans can live in harmony.

Okay, Ellie, what did you think of David Mogo Godhunter? 

Ellie: So I have a confession to make. I set the date for this recording, and this is a good confession, I set the date for this recording knowing full well that I was binging another series and if I didn't have a deadline I would not get to this book and read it and finish it.

So I've read this whole book in the last 24 hours. Oh, nice one. I finished it half an hour before our scheduled recording started. You see, this 

Jen: is what happens when two mood readers try and like organize a podcast. 

Ellie: I, yeah, exactly, exactly. But despite the, the, the time pressure constraints, [00:05:00] I did quite enjoy this book.

I didn't enjoy it as much as I want to say I enjoyed it. Um, which, um, feels very new for me to say, um, but like I, I enjoyed it, but it, it was like, it was good for me. It wasn't. 10 out of 10, because not every book can be that, obviously, um, 

Jen: how, how do you feel about the book? So I am going to like caveat this with saying, when I read this book, I was on holidays, which in this context meant I read it on planes and in hostels on a mountainside, which was not the best, you know, surroundings to get absorbed by a book kind of thing.

Mhm. But I, I really did not like this book. Before we started recording, we were writing up the summary at the start and I couldn't remember half the things that happened because I just did not care. After halfway, I was just like, I'm just getting through where it's here.[00:06:00] 

Ellie: That's not a good, not a good feeling. 

Jen: And it's really annoying because I, I was so excited going into it and I really wanted it to be good. Mhm. The, the setting was so, uh, like new and refreshing and this, uh, kind of like, Urban fantasy, I think it's called god punk is, is what the genre is being described as and it sounded really, really cool.

I was really looking forward to it and we've had it on our list kind of since the beginning that like, Oh, this would be a cool one to go for. And yeah, I found it just. I found it let down in pretty much every way. 

Ellie: Hmm. Hmm. Okay. Well, I guess, yeah, let's try and like pull that apart and see, um, in what ways.

So yeah, I guess we can start off with the world building and, or like the setting and, and, and where we are. Cause. So for me, I think this is like the third or fourth [00:07:00] book I've, um, read in by a Nigerian author set in Nigeria, at least the second one I read set in Lagos. But it was the first fantasy esque ish one.

So I was really excited for that being like, yeah, I have like the most basic, the most basic, um, understanding of, of where this is going to be. But I think what. really hit me about the world building was how often it was mentioned in that this is a ruined city, this is a desolate landscape, this is a ruined city, this is a desolate like it was just again and again and again and again.

It was so often described as like before the fall this would have been bustling but now it is empty. It just hit me too many times like yes I know the place is empty, like I know now I'm like 200 pages in, you don't need to tell me that it's 

Jen: Still empty. Yeah. Can you think of a better way to, to get this across?

Like describe [00:08:00] the emptiness there. What is present as opposed to just what is absent? I don't think I've read any books set in Lagos. I've definitely read a few Nigerian authors, but I haven't read, I don't think I've read anything set there. And I kind of found there was a lot of. And this goes into the writing style as well, but there's a lot of like editorializing by the narrator and part of like a large part of that being about things that happen.

Well, 

Ellie: okay. Actually, as you, as you're going to start to say that about like the first one that you've read set in Lagos, it actually, one thing it did remind me of that I feel like In some ways it deserves to do, but you know when you read a book about New York or London and people just name drop streets constantly and it's almost like this book is written for people who know the streets of London and know exactly what park in, is in what square of which corner of New York.

I a little bit felt that from this book, but in a way I don't judge it for it because for once it's doing it somewhere that isn't that, [00:09:00] but it still didn't like help me get into the worlds. 

Jen: Yeah, I, I feel like it didn't really thread the needle with like explaining something while also not going into too much detail.

Like, um, whenever you're reading a book or watching a show or whatever from something that's set in a different culture or set in a different country, there's going to be things that you don't understand and you have to be okay with that and sure, no bother. But one of the things that was happening, I found a lot is, yeah, there was a lot of references to, here's the name of five different bridges.

It's like, they used to connect this place to this place, you used to go on this bridge to do a such and such, and it's kind of like, okay, does that have anything to do with what's going on? Like, it's not giving me a better sense of, of place. It's not giving me a better sense of like the destruction of the city or anything.

It just feels like describing Google Maps or something, you know? 

Ellie: I literally did have Google Maps open for the first six chapters. Like, [00:10:00] I literally did and Carl was like, Oh, what are you doing? And I'm like, reading my book. Cause like I was sitting in the office, like at my desk doing this and he was like, right.

Okay, then looking at me, looking at Google maps being like, huh. Cause it is a really interestingly laid out city, but the fact that I'm there like reading them, looking at Google maps being like one, two, three. Okay. Um, like not everybody, when you're, when you're on an airplane or you're sitting in a mountainside house, a hostel, it's not the same as me sitting at my desk being like, okay, I can open Google maps and like really get like the layout of the city and understand what he means by like the different islands and stuff.

Jen: Yeah. And also like. You shouldn't have to open Google Maps to get a sense of place with a book. 

Ellie: No, I did enjoy it, but you're right. Which is a shame because I really did like experiencing a whole new set of like gods and kind of [00:11:00] like, I really, really enjoy. Did you say that this new genre is called kind of god punk?

Jen: Yeah, I've seen um, the book described as Nigerian god punk. 

Ellie: Ooh, I'm gonna have to look up like god punk in general. That is like outside of the, I don't know, Western Christian world, um, because Like, I like that as a world setting, I 

Jen: think, 

Ellie: personally. 

Jen: Yeah. I, I always like when, um, there's like mythologies, like fully fleshed out, proper mythologies are used as a basis for books and like ones that I don't know about.

Exactly. Yeah. It's one of the things that I loved about the, the Davabad. Trilogy is like, it's so fleshed out and there's so many like random things that come in and you're just like, I'm just gonna smile and nod cause I'm sure this is gonna make sense and sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't and it's like, well, sometimes mythology just doesn't make any sense.

Cool. Yeah. I was, I was hoping for more kind of, uh, I [00:12:00] don't even know how to say it. Like there is a lot of detail that came into the different gods in this book and talking about the different pantheons and, um, giving like. Descriptions of the gods abilities and their relations to each other and the fights that happened and all this, but it never felt like useful information.

Like, it never felt like it actually helped establish the characters in any way. It was just things that you were being told that could have just been deleted and it would not have changed anything. Like I like Kehinde as, um, sorry, Kehinde as a character. I liked a lot of things about the, at least when they started the characterizations of Kehinde and Taiwo, and I was really hoping this would go somewhere.

Well, anywhere, and then I kind of found that, oh, the gods didn't change, they, they did give us a lot of exposition, but that was kind of it, and it's like, oh, okay, like, cool. They were [00:13:00] key to David's training montage. They were key to the montage, I will give you that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of the things that was, um, I think it's probably the first thing that actually started getting on my nerves reading it was this kind of self editorializing for the narrator that was always slightly, it always felt slightly in the wrong voice because the narrator is talking, like the narrator is, is narrating in, let's say like standard US English.

And sometimes when David is talking to different characters, he'll use different dialects. And that's fine, but the narrator is supposed to be David, but when David editorializes his own narrative, he uses different English to what the narrative English is. So it's kind of like, Oh, this is my voice, but this is my voice.

And it always just felt really jarring [00:14:00] to me. I'm not usually a fan of narrators correcting themselves, but sometimes it does work. And it's fine, um, you barely even notice it, but this, I felt every time it happened, I felt it was a case of, well, why didn't you just phrase the narration better instead of phrasing it badly and having him come in speaking completely differently to correct something that you couldn't describe.

Ellie: Oh, I didn't, um, pick up on that as a, yeah, as I was reading it, that's a really interesting observation because I, I will say that like this book was one of my first times kind of experiencing like reading the, like, uh, like pigeon, like, Dialectical kind of English. And I realized that in the previous or in, in, in the previous books that I've had that have had this in it, I've actually listened to them as audio books and I found it like [00:15:00] really easy to kind of like flow between both.

Um, whereas it's been the first time I was actually reading, reading, um, it took a lot more work. Yeah. To kind of get that juxtaposition, um, personally, but that was also something that I was like, well, this is just something that I also need. To learn, but I guess because I was so focused on like making sure I actually understood every word I didn't I didn't notice that personally as much purely because I was just like making sure I got what was meant to be understood.

Jen: I did find in some sections towards the end when, um, he's talking to Papa Udi, it's, it's just a little hard to understand. There's definitely sections that I'm like, I'm just, I've just given up on those few lines cause I don't know what's supposed to be said here and I'm trying, I've got a lot of it. I understand a lot of what's going on.

but some of them were just kind of indecipherable. And it's, if you're [00:16:00] writing a book in English and you're writing stuff in a, a dialect, um, or form of pidgin English that is indecipherable to an English speaker, it's, it's kind of a failing of the book. Like there was an audio book I got a while ago. Um, I got it just on complete.

Random whim, downloaded it from the library and about halfway through it, I found that half the characters were just like constantly speaking in Spanish and I understand a bit of Spanish. So like to the start of it, I was like, okay, I understand. I follow what they're saying, but then they're having full blown conversations in Spanish.

It's like, how am I supposed to, like, I have to give it back. How am I supposed to follow, like, I don't read books in Spanish. My Spanish isn't that good. You know, it's, I feel like it's, it's a similar kind of situation. Like if you're putting in stuff that's indecipherable to the language of the book, it's being advertised and sold in, like, Why?[00:17:00] 

Ellie: I, yeah, I, I feel kind of 50 50 on this, um, partially, well, I guess this because it's a completely different medium, but this is, I don't know how my brain has connected these two things, but it has. So we're going to go there. The Netflix documentary about the Tour de France called Unchanged. Okay. Everybody who's involved in the Tour de France is from different, different nationalities and everyone is speaking like five different languages at once.

Not, well, no, that's an, that's overly dramatic, but people who do have English will speak in English when the cameras are there. Even when the person they're speaking to also actually speaks Dutch or whatever, but then the person might respond in Dutch and then somebody else might say something in French and everyone still understands and it's like, Oh my God, what is going on?

But it's all, but it was actually kind of really cool to see such a like interplay and um, like watching it, it was like, Oh, imagine. Like, I don't know how I would consume other media that [00:18:00] was like multilingual, but you could do some really cool like, like spy stuff through this where like you only learn stuff as you go.

And it depends on how many languages are known in the room, I guess. I don't know. But, um, like it's definitely a very fine balance. Like a very fine balance. 

Jen: That was one of my favorite things about, um, the movie Inglourious Bastards because the German spoke German, the French spoke French and it was great.

However, the bits you're supposed to follow got subtitled into English. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like my biggest problem with this book is kind of actually, so I've just finished editing. Well, I've, I've just finished going through our, um, Iron Flame episode. And I think, like, my problems I have with this are the same problems I really have with Iron Flame.

Oh. So, I get the feeling with this book, it was, [00:19:00] it was planned by the author to be an epic three book saga. Mm hmm. And then he realized he could not get that published and decided to chop it down to one book. And the way that he did that was by chopping out all the character moments and just putting in all the plot moments.

Mm hmm. So, what we end of. With, is a book where tons of things happen, but you never get a sense of gravity and you never get a chance to build character. So you have all these characters coming in and doing things, but you don't care. It's, well, at least I didn't care, like, Oh, Papa Udi and Fatty are dead.

And it's like, well, okay. Like 16 things have happened since, um, I also, 

Ellie: I also didn't believe it. Yeah. I was like, nah, 

Jen: yeah. And 

Ellie: that's, yeah. 

Jen: But also like in the, the second section of the book, when he goes to the arena and they're like, Oh, like Here's a stranger, what's your [00:20:00] name? And he says, my name's David Mogo.

And everyone like stops and gasps as they realize who he is. And I was like, well, like 20 pages ago you were a nobody who like, okay, not 20 pages, more than that. But like at the start of the book and for the first third of the book, you're a complete nobody who runs a random black market scam essentially.

And now I'm supposed to believe based on one fight. That is marketed as very like, like it's written as very self contained and it's, it's written as like, not a lot of people know what's really going on here, but from that one fight, now everybody in Lagos knows who you are, cares extremely like about everything you do and just the whisper of your name will like stun them to silence.

It's like, when, when was that supposed to 

Ellie: happen? Like now that you've said it that way, because the book is even like, yeah, it's broken into like three parts and. Yeah, like, it's also only [00:21:00] 350 pages, at least my copy is, which is quite short in the fantasy world where people like to run up to 800 pages. So yeah, because just there when, when you mentioned about Fatih and Papa Udi dying and me not really believing it, part of me not believing it was because.

Like, we never actually really experienced David's grief. 

Jen: Mm. 

Ellie: Like, there was multiple times where he was like, I don't know, but I can't think about that now. I can't think about it. It's fine. Just keep going. But like, you can only say that to yourself so many times until you have a random moment where you're like standing on a balcony in the lagoon and you're like, Oh my God, my world is shattered.

Like, yeah, the, for the amount of stuff and pace. That happens in the book. The character development doesn't go at the same pace. And I found that especially tricky towards the end because there are several gods that begin with an O and then have a vowel, and then have [00:22:00] a consonant and then another vowel and then possibly an N or an A at the end.

And I was like, okay, this god does this and this one does this. Oh no, wait, no, that one has water. Okay. That one has like, yeah, it was a little hard to keep the cast. solid in my mind just because how quickly it was all kind of, yeah, introduced and like, okay, this is the lineup and now we're going to go and off we go.

Jen: And even, so there's a part like maybe three quarters of the way through the book where I don't remember their names, the woman who ran the arena and the, her partner. There's a scene with them and David sees them and he's like, Oh, I saw her smile for the first time. It was like, so fantastic. And it's like, really?

You've known this woman for three days, like, Oh, it's such a big deal. You saw her smile for the first time. Like there's, there's no development there. There's no feeling that this was a cranky person. This was somebody he did not know, you know? Like how [00:23:00] long did you know her at that point? Probably supposed to be four months, but it felt like a day.

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, it definitely felt like, like that whole relationship, like there were so many relationships that could have been something, but then weren't. And also the very beginning of the book, I felt like Fatty was being set up to be like something of a love interest, but then like towards the end she was referred to as like a sister.

And I was like. I have no idea what this relationship is supposed to be. 

Jen: Yeah. I mean, I kind of, I felt like it was trying to set that up cause it got like weirdly crude at the start when talking about Fatih, but then she is supposed to be like 14 or something like that. So it's like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.

So essentially the same, the same thing or similar thing I was complaining about with iron flame. Moose too fast. It doesn't have character moments, doesn't have character building, doesn't build tension. Things just happen. And I feel like there's often a confusion in fantasy about things happening and [00:24:00] things mattering.

And, like, this would be a book that I would say is a perfect example of, like, that worse side of fantasy. So I have this work book club and we were reading, uh, a literary fiction book a little while ago. And it was terrible. It was so bad, but it's, it's one of these like award winning, everyone says it's fantastic and we all read it going like, uh, seriously, like what the hell?

And at the end of it, the most useful thing that came out of the book was that I could explain, so for years I wouldn't read literary fiction and stuff, and I could use this book as an example of this is what I always thought literary fiction was. It's just like self indulgent waffle that's completely pointless, the characters don't go anywhere, this person just seems to hate trees.

Ellie: Sorry.

Jen: And. 

Ellie: That just wasn't the sentence I was expecting, that's all. 

Jen: [00:25:00] Um, but like, I, I feel like this is the fantasy equivalent of that. Like when people tell me that they hate fantasy, they usually bring things up like. There's no character development, it's just lots of random things happening that you don't care about.

None, like, those kind of, of complaints I feel are, are really exemplified in this book. Now, in saying that, I feel like the author is a better writer than this book, and I wouldn't be against reading one of his later books to see if it's better, because I would assume that it is. I just, I, I didn't. Yeah. I didn't like it.

Oh yeah, 

Ellie: I agree. Like, I feel like, um, we're quite negative in this podcast, uh, or in, in, in this particular episode towards this book. Um, and it's more because like, there is just, there, there, there are things that we can pick apart, but I'm saying this knowing full well that I would definitely pick up another one of their books and give it an, like, give another story a try.

Like, it is not to the point of like, I [00:26:00] hate this book. It was like, ah, it was fine. It didn't really hit enough boxes for me. Like, in my head, we put this book on the list and it was like I'm not going to say adult fantasy, but like general fantasy. It definitely feels a lot more like a YA fantasy to me, possibly just because it's a lot of this happens, this happens, this happens, this happens, and not really the ebb and flow of character development and worlds building and events happening and you know, for me anyway.

Jen: Yeah, that is one of the things when you're, you're looking at like the. kind of complexity in a book and you're like comparing it against like the target audience. If this was aimed at six year olds, it's way too complex, but if this is aimed at like 36 year olds, it's way too simplistic and shallow. Yeah.

Um, like I'm Googling it. I think it is aimed at adults. I think so too. 

Ellie: Yeah. 

Jen: Yeah. Which is, yeah, I feel like it just missed the [00:27:00] mark. 

Ellie: Um, actually it's like when you mentioned about like, like this book missing the kind of character development possibly and how people will be like, Oh, this is what I like, don't look for in fantasy.

I feel like this almost needs. Like, it's at one end of a spectrum, and at the other end of the spectrum you almost have like romanticy, which can often have so much character development that the plot is thrown in at the very end, and like, the sweet spot is like somewhere in the middle, but like perfect character development, well not perfect, but you know, true character development but enough plot to keep you.

to keep the story moving forward, that it's not just, you're just invested in these couple of relationships or whatever. 

Jen: Yeah. Oh yeah, I totally agree with that. Though I'd, I'd much rather read the, like, 90 percent relationship, 10 percent plot, because if a book has that, at least the relationships are done really well.

And you're like, Oh, so this is just like a romance book that has a fantasy backdrop instead of, this [00:28:00] is a, a, Uh, 

Ellie: I, I, I've, I've read a couple of bad romanticy books earlier this year, unfortunately. 

Jen: I read a few recently myself as well, and they're so 

Ellie: cringe. It was, it was really actually, it was really interesting to read a couple of bad ones and be like, ah, these are the kind of books that the internet thinks all fantasy with romance in it is like, this is what they think it all is.

It's like. read in a day, like not much of anything. Like, yeah, very shallow characters. Here's some sex, like, if I'm honest. And like, yeah, brooding, brooding, dark, mysterious men, morally gray characters. And I was like, ah, so this is what, like it exists. I, I have experienced some of it now and. Not great. But anyway, so there, there are, there are bads, maybe, [00:29:00] maybe it's less of a, of a linear spectrum and more of a, a giant colorful circle.

And who knows where, where, where you actually want to hit on that target. Um, anyway, we're getting very far off topic. 

Jen: Uh, I just, I just wanted to say. There's one thing I think he does really well, and that is describing physical action. Ooh. So one of the first things that I highlighted was Kende casting a spell, and it does this movement description.

It sounds a little weird, but like she's doing weird movements, but it works really well and it's not over described. It's succinct. You get a really good concept of what she's actually doing. And that's something that I find a lot of authors aren't great at. They tend to, they try and over explain because they're like, well, it sounds weird.

You don't just put your hand [00:30:00] up. It's, it's, it's like a whoosh of their arm and a swoop. And then their hand does this. Whereas in this book, it says she bends, links her arms as if craving a baby, then opens up as if for an, an embrace. The air crackles, a soft whoosh. And that's it. And it's like, that is such a nice way.

It's really evocative. It's um, descriptive enough that you can really understand what the character is actually doing. 

Ellie: That's so true. That's so true. Because a couple of the things that I've marked in the book. that aren't just kind of challenge points, are actions that either, like, sent a shiver down my spine.

Like one of them, I'll see, I'll see if I can magically find the tab. Okay.

Osen doesn't come at me. Instead, the god spreads her legs wild and howls, something inhumane, ear rending. She howls again and suddenly I'm not sure if it's just me or if there are black [00:31:00] wisps of cloud gathering about her preparing to rain death. The bottom of her Agbada ruffles and I see the imprint of a palm and realize the howls were the pain of bearing offspring.

A hand reaches down to touch the water. There's a plop like a huge rod of feces dropping. Then something is swimming towards me, swift and sure. That just sent like, like none of it is like overly complicated. There's a plop and then this thing is swimming towards me. This woman just this god just birthed a little demon spawn and now it's going to attack.

And that, I swear, was like, like, that had, yeah, the, like, the goosebumps, the, like, hairs on the back of my neck, like, shudder feeling way more than other books I've read recently that I've absolutely loved that have had, like, Battle scenes or whatever, where like I am much more invested in the character surviving, but [00:32:00] the threat never made me shudder the way that did.

But one thing that we definitely have plenty of in this book, seeing as it was so plot heavy are challenges to draw from. So as always. We have picked, uh, five challenges from the book and we're gonna go through and see if we can survive this. Yeah. So, 

Jen: yeah. Okay, so our first challenge is, uh, the initial raid on Ajala's compound.

And this one, it's. 

Ellie: It's after, um, David has come back and been like, no, no, no, I'm not doing this job. And um, he escapes with Fatty. And so they're going back in to try and I think like contain Ajala and he gets the compound and he's like, Oh, the, the guards that I like shot the last time he was the gate guard, they [00:33:00] haven't replaced him.

Ah, they were just like. Clearly, think that they're so tough and that no one would dare try and enter, so I'm just gonna sneak on through and, ah, my tiptoeing skills are amazing and tip, David gets the whole way to the master bedroom door, flings it open, and here are Ajala's taboo, godling creations. How are you feeling about Demon Spawn, Jen?

Jen: Uh, I'm not a big fan of Demon Spawn. Uh, based on, you know, the life experience, um, I would, however, say that since I can breathe and walk at the same time, I'm smarter than David. Oh. So I don't think I would fall into this trap as like easily, because he sets himself up to just be destroyed here. It's like, Oh, I just walked into a [00:34:00] compound.

I guess I'm just fantastic. And it's like, No, obviously you're just walking into the compound that's been heavily guarded every other time you're here. Something's wrong. So I don't think I would be of the throw the doors open to a random room that I think the bad guy might be in. I'm the kind of person that, that is 

Ellie: a very strong argument, like, yeah, I, I agree.

I think, I think between the two of us, especially, we would definitely have the look of like, what the hell is going on here? This is not right. 

Jen: Oh, to be fair, how much would that actually help us? Yeah, exactly. Still getting attacked by this, like, godling army. 

Ellie: Yes, we're still going to be overrun by these children that have been turned into these taboo things.

Yeah, not entirely sure how well I'm going to be at fighting these 

Jen: guys off. It feels like, you know, a manifestation of that thing of would you rather [00:35:00] fight. 

Ellie: Yeah, 

Jen: yeah, 

Ellie: yeah! Uh, like, uh, um, A hundred rhinos the size of Ducks, or one duck the size of a rhino, 

Jen: yeah, it's kind of like, uh, I feel like you're always going to be better off if there's just one enemy instead of a billion of them.

Ellie: Yeah, the, the, the swarm, the swarm mentality is not, it's not good for me. Uh, and even then, so, okay, assuming we also get caught, like David gets caught and kept in this magic circle with this talisman on it. and David is being like kicked around by Ajala feeling human for the first time in his life, no magical extra god powers to help him.

That actually gave me flashbacks. Taekwondo. I don't know if I've talked about this in the podcast. I can't, I can't recall. Maybe I have. Yeah. So I did, I did Taekwondo from like a child to when I was like, I don't know, [00:36:00] 14. And part of the process for, I think most mixed martial arts or martial arts in general is, um, You have to learn your patterns or your katanas or whatever, whatever you want to call them.

And that bit is fine. And like learning all the kicks and the punches is fine. But before you can go through like the different belts, you have to go and actually spar in competition X number of times. And I just kind of got flashbacks to being like 11 and some of the kids. That you'd have to walk out and spar against, like you have to like, you tap gloves and then you walk back and then the, the ref like swipes his hand down and they just launch like they are possessed.

And I don't know what it was about this book or like about that kind of that, that, that part of the book that gave me flashbacks to that being like, yeah, I've actually thought I'd be pretty good at fighting, but I hated it. I absolutely hated having to punch somebody. [00:37:00] Or having these like demon children launch themselves across the mat at me.

So I feel like up until now I have felt quite confident in my fighting abilities. And it is only in episode nine that I'm reflecting back on my taekwondo experience being like, ah, you might not be as good at this bit as you think you are. 

Jen: I mean, you have had a long time to like mature and get. used to, you know, attacking children, yes, 

Ellie: maybe adult, maybe adult me would have less qualms about punching somebody else, especially if it's a life threatening situation.

Jen: Okay. So I think we're probably losing the first challenge, but in the same way that David loses. 

Ellie: Which is fine then, which means like, okay, we're, we're not succeeding, but we're also not actually failing in terms of the book. Hmm. The second challenge is. To [00:38:00] decipher the riddle or prophecy from Olukun, the 

Jen: god he meets in the lagoon.

So this had like zero payoff in the book, just, just saying, just getting that in. Um, David with his, um, singular brain cell is like, Oh, I heard a riddle. I guess it's an. Airplane and then goes to an airport and has Tyro turn up and go like, are you stupid? Of course, that's not it. 

Ellie: I at least, yeah, I appreciated that.

It was like, what are you talking about? That is not how, cause I was also being like, that can't be. Why would you 

Jen: think airport, why would a God give a riddle prophecy thing about an airport? 

Ellie: And also, so in, in the prophecy it says like, there you will find fire smothered by bone. And then nearly every time he talks about the riddle afterwards, he says stone.[00:39:00] 

Really? Yeah. And I'm like, no, it's fire smothered by bone. It means it's in somebody. Not smothered by stone, it's not buried. 

Jen: Oh. So I think automatically you'll do better than David because you remember what was actually said. Thanks. 

Ellie: Because riddles are not normally my strong point, so I'm gonna be honest, not my, not my strong point.

But I was also like not impressed with the airport and I remember the right word. So 

Jen: yeah. So succeeding beyond the main character, which is good. Go team podcast. I don't think this is kind of possible to get, if you know what I mean, because there's so little context. And it's not as if throughout the book you learn lots of things that you put together and here's suddenly the answer.

It's like, here's a riddle and then someone else gives you the answer later and you're like, okay. 

Ellie: Yeah. I feel like it could have been drawn out more. The [00:40:00] fact that David is referred to as Smiths of iron and fire. Like, yeah, I feel like, yeah, it could have been drawn out in interesting ways in the book. I feel like.

Revealing of his parentage, or like, you know, figuring out more about his God powers, but um, yeah, I, I agree. The way it ended up being in the book was, well, here's the answer, because we found you again. So let us, oh wise ones, tell you what you don't know. Okay. Well, that's okay. That means so far we're actually on a pretty good streak.

We failed, but failed with the main character, and I think we have done better at this. unsolvable riddle. 

Jen: Yeah. And also I think on the first challenge, even though we failed, we would have failed in a less stupid way. So we would have warned the, the 

Ellie: backup that this definitely felt like a trap. You're right.

Yeah. We would have just been like, I'm going in. 

Jen: You know, I feel, yeah, we're, we're, [00:41:00] we're failing in a slightly better way. We're failing 

Ellie: upwards. Exactly. Failing upwards. 

Jen: Yeah. Okay. So challenge number three, this is the second fight with Sango. Uh, Sango is the God who attacks the house and David initially gets like wiped out.

So he has a second battle with Sango and during this battle, he essentially has to try and, I guess kind of like destroys humanity to reveal his, his godliness, um, because his, his god essence, his godly abilities have been so buried in his body and buried in himself for so long that he needs a release, which is taken in the form of, uh, a bit of lightning, which I mean, we saw this in another book recently.

Ellie: We did. 

Jen: Slightly different context. That's 

Ellie: very true. Yeah. Different context. Yeah. Um, so actually, [00:42:00] okay, so this challenge has actually brought up a, something I'd meant like something that kind of wants to, I don't know, talk about or air a grievance of, because it kind of, I feel like the book could have started just giving us some context to earlier life David.

Like, even if you just had like a couple of chapters. That were younger him having to suppress his godliness or whatever his god essence or something because we're kind of just stumped I feel like it starts off with David talking about, like, the very start of the book is he's in this big room and his God essence is like buzzing because of all the power around him, but then it's like, oh, but actually I've been suppressing it my whole life.

So to truly release it, I just don't know how to do that because I've been suppressing it. And I found it kind of hard to jump between like, you are using this thing. We get 60 pages, even maybe [00:43:00] more, 150 pages in and now it's like, Oh, but this thing you've been using is actually the suppressed version. I don't know.

I felt like his character development there was a bit like, I don't know, it's time to level up the anime character. So that's Zappin with Lightning. 

Jen: Yeah. I think having a chapter is. Or even like a single chapter of him as a child would have also helped with like a sense of time in the book because it kind of like, you know, the gods have to have fallen what like at least 20 years ago, but it kind of feels like it happened last year and everyone's still scrambling.

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I have to keep remembering that like, no, David Mogo is like, he's a fully grown adult. And he is Park God. So like he, he has to be at least as old as him, like it has to be, but you'd never really get that sense of time, but if maybe you could get the sense of time of him as a [00:44:00] child and actually seeing that, that change or that difference, or even having like a snapshot of what.

The world was like when he was younger as well and then moving to what it currently is after everything has, like the falls happened, but then there's a difference between the gods falling and then the world getting destroyed. 

Ellie: Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. Um, cause actually I think the only time that his age is kind of like hinted at is one of the other characters.

It's said to be 34 and he says, Oh, a few years older than me. And I'm like, Oh, does that mean you're 30? Does that mean you're in late twenties? 

Jen: I have no idea. I was just guessing 20. Cause I was like, I feel like he's older than a teenager. So 20? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So how do you think you'd feel about leveling up your anime character by getting zapped by the God?

Nearly, actually, I was going to say nearly killed you before, kind of did, but kind of [00:45:00] didn't. And also Papa Uri and Fadi survived that pretty easily as well. So I mean, how deadly is this lightning God? 

Ellie: Um, I will say like, it's, this is one of these thoughts that I've had my whole life that is like, I know is.

Completely irrational and not, not irrational, but like, I don't actually want this to happen. Like obviously not. But the scars you get from being hit by lightning look so cool. Like obviously it is a terrible thing to befall anybody. Nobody actually wants to be hit by lightning, but the scars do look very cool.

Well, seeing as like. Seeing as it's kind of the only step forwards, it's the only option. 

Jen: And to be fair, even if you didn't want to do it, it's probably going to happen to you anyways. 

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah. Even if you avoided it, they would track you down. It was coming. It was coming either way. So being zapped by lightning, but then also kind of like going through that [00:46:00] intense pain.

Actually, you know what? I think we're acing this challenge because you and I both have. Stupidly high pain thresholds. Oh yeah! That just hit me now. I'm like, wait a second. We're gonna be fine. We got this. We have both been told by medical professionals. Wait, you should be in a lot more pain right now. We, we're good.

We're good. We got this. Not to hype ourselves up or anything, but you know, the weirdest flex we can have. 

Jen: Uh, yeah, that is, that is a very good point. Uh, that's not something I thought of. Um, nice. 

Ellie: Sorry, I don't know if you want that going on record, but. 

Jen: No, cool. Like, I mean, I was debating whether to be like, Oh yeah, I remember that time when I hurt my hip.

My physio knew me so well. She's like, we need to scan it to make sure you did not break your hip because you don't know what pain is. And I was like, okay, 

Ellie: sorry. Exactly. [00:47:00] Exactly. So I think we're acing this one. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go Ash. Let's get zapped. Let's become even more badass. 

Jen: Oh yeah. 

Ellie: Yeah. We got this.

Jen: So one thing that, um, Um, just from like these three challenges so far that you can really see on the book side, main character has zero agency. Like he's, he fails a lot of challenges and then a lot of things that happen, they're just going to happen. Like this fight with Sango, Sango is still going to try and kill him whether or not he actually goes to get, Hit by lightning.

He doesn't, like, at what point does this character ever make an active choice that brings the plot forward? You know? There's so many points that he gets shoved into a situation and he's like, Oh, I guess I'm here. And it's like, well, anything else? And he's like, no, I'm going to wait for someone to save me or I'm going to just wait for whatever is going to happen.

Happens anyways. 

Ellie: Oh yeah. I guess it's actually not until the, like the very last action in the book [00:48:00] where he has agency in that 

Jen: way, I guess. Yeah, like the only decision he makes the entire time is be like, okay, I'm gonna sacrifice myself to save my friends. And then he survives. So. 

Ellie: That sounds so, so mean of me, I 

Jen: don't even.

He even failed at that! Ah. Okay, okay, um, so. Okay, we are super sane. We're super saiyans, yes, we are super saiyans now, um, save on lots of hair gel, be cool. And as a, as a super saiyan, we get a training montage. We do. Yeah. So David gets a training montage, uh, in this book. I'm just going to assume that like we have it in as a challenge, but you know what?

Ellie: Yeah. 

Jen: We can training montage. 

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we can. We can, we kind of put it in as a half challenge just to be like, and remember training montage because it is so classically written as like in the mornings he learns the history of [00:49:00] the gods and in the afternoons he fights and in the evening he makes rituals and amulets and he becomes the god that he was meant to be.

Jen: You know what? Actually, this would not work out well for me. Oh? Because, teaching history in the morning and then fighting in the evening, no, I have to exercise in the morning, teach me history in the evening, like I'll be asleep by the time I have to fight and I'll be too energetic when I'm trying to learn history, so I have to switch up my own montage.

Okay. Okay. 

Ellie: I'm sure, I'm sure, like, I'm sure they can, you're still covering all the bases, surely they won't mind. And it means that you're not also like trying to do the fighting in the like midday slash afternoon heat. Yeah. You're getting into the shade. You're going 

Jen: inside. Much more logical. A hundred percent.

I mean, this episode is probably going to go out when it's actually cool out, but when we're recording it, it is, um, ridiculously warm and ridiculously [00:50:00] humid. So the idea of exercising outside is just. Hell at the moment. 

Ellie: Yes. Yes. I'm actually going to be even more hell for Janice. I am actually going to go for a run after this recording.

And we weren't recording in the evening. I know, I know, I know, I know, but I, I slept pretty bad last night, so I didn't run this morning and I was like, well, I can't run during the day. It's too hot. So I'm going to run at like 9 p. m. instead and just not sleep again. 

Jen: I mean, that is fair. I went for a run this morning and it was like, I think it was only like 17 degrees, but it was 92 percent humidity.

Yeah. It's 

Ellie: horrible. It's so bad. Yeah. But anyway. Okay. We will do the training montage as long as we're allowed to customize it to our 

Jen: own schedules. Functioning. We got stuff going 

Ellie: on. Yeah. Yeah. But now that we are fit and I guess ready to, to go, we need, uh, we need an army. We can't just go off and, and fight all the bad guys by [00:51:00] ourselves.

So challenge number four. is getting some gods on your side. Making alliances. 

Jen: How do you trust a god? Oh god, I don't know. Like I even, I feel like a lot of what David did was just got his mom to do it. 

Ellie: In his defense, he, he knew no gods and she did. That's true. And she was like, I don't want to be the god of war anymore.

You don't have to be the god of war. He's like, what? I don't want to be the god of war. And she's like, well, you are now. So here, I'll go get some buddies to help you so that you don't need to die. Yeah, it's like I'm giving you the weapons, but I'll also like put you in contact with some guys. 

Jen: I feel like I wouldn't.

Hmm. Trickster gods is kind of the question, like why would you go for the trickster gods? I know they're powerful and I know they've got lots of going on, but like surely there's more [00:52:00] trustworthy gods that you could. Approach. First, 

Ellie: I guess I understand going for, I've lost his name, AZ, IZ, A, something like that.

Aziza. Thank you. Um, because he, I think is the God that delivers David from his mother to Papa Udi. So you've got a pretty solid, like foundation of trust there. He has already carried the infant over and not then not told anybody who the parents were. And like. Where the shot is from. So yeah, that one makes sense.

Going for a second trickster god of just a different kind of elemental style. Yeah, I don't know. Like is, is, are there no, I don't know. I can't even think of other gods right now, but like other storm gods? 

Jen: Any other form of god that's not a [00:53:00] trickster, but then would a trickster be easier to approach because they're less.

solid in their alliances, so they're more likely to join you, but then again, they're also more likely to betray you because they're a trickster. I think if you have a trickster god, you just can't trust one. Like you can trust the one who Papa Udi knew and that, that, that one's already like trustworthy has proven himself, but the new one, you can't, you just have to go on, you have to go on phase.

Ellie: Which I guess, thankfully in this book, they did all end up on team good guys. Yes. So while I feel like we would have been very similar to David in that like, I don't trust you and I don't know why everyone expects me to instantly trust you. Why is everyone else like, yeah, we're all just going to team up together and nobody be like, [00:54:00] wait, what?

So I feel like we are very similar to David in this in that like I, I don't trust you and then people get affronted by being like told that I don't trust you yet because you haven't proven yourself. 

Jen: You see, David doesn't, like, this is, this is the problem with this book. David does not form the alliances.

Other people form the alliances for him and he's a passive actor within it. So for us to succeed at this, we just have to like not throw a tantrum at the end like he did. 

Ellie: Ah, and I feel like, yeah, maturity levels, we, we, we got them like we might internally throw a tantrum. We might give each other a look of like, what the hell is going on?

Like, excuse me, no, but yeah, 

Jen: but keep it 

Ellie: self contained. 

Jen: Yeah. We wouldn't like lash out. No. Just lots of like weird eye movements. 

Ellie: Yeah, exactly.

Jen: Uh, okay, so that brings us to the [00:55:00] last challenge, which the final showdown or the final showdowns. There are many showdowns. 

Ellie: Yeah, it kind of goes and you could almost say three stages from the like the ambush at the lagoon to then what David thinks is the final showdown on the bridge to what his mother and one or two of the other gods had actually orchestrated as being the final showdown in the palace.

This is the only lot twist that the book had. That I, I guess didn't see coming because I just didn't think it was going to have any plot twists. Um, that his mother and two of the other gods had actually intended for their final showdown to fail, to make, to kind of make a Ganju think it's all done and dusted and turn his gaze elsewhere.

That is. [00:56:00] I, I didn't see that plot twist coming. Did you? 

Jen: No. Um, but I'll be perfectly honest with you, I remember very little about the end of this book. It did not leave an impression. You're like, the final showdown at the palace, and I was like, I have a highlight about a comment that was made when he's being tortured that makes zero sense.

And that's the last recollection I have of this book. 

Ellie: Oh no. 

Jen: Oh, I know, I know, I know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 

Ellie: It's okay, it's okay. Jen also finished this book much before me, as is classic. We're both mood readers, but Jen is a much more organized mood reader.

So yeah, they go to the bridge, David thinks this is the final showdown. What I found interesting is that like. It's all kind of working. He gets to, [00:57:00] he gets to Uganju and just still isn't developed enough in his powers, which I think is one of the like, most realistic parts of this book because it all feels so rushed that him getting to what he thinks is the final battle and still not actually being ready.

made sense to me. I was kind of like, there's not much book left. How is this going to resolve? But also, yeah, he's not going to like, he has not actually had time to improve and it would be too, too perfect for the, like the leveling up in his power and the minimal training he's had to actually result in him winning this fight.

However, it turns out that yes, his mother and two of the other gods. I'd kind of seen this coming. And so, they disappeared, Ganju broke the bridge, and that whole [00:58:00] last stand crumbled. Um, only for them to sweep into the palace, rescue him, and David to finally finish the job. But anyway. Okay. That's describing the challenge.

How are we actually, how are we going to go through the stages of this challenge? Okay. Well, we have the bridge. And I will admit, the final version of Godlings. seem pretty easy to destroy. Everyone's going along, hit them with something, they turn to dust. Or to black sand. So. Compared to the first round of godlings, these ones actually.

The way they were described and the way people were just kind of like pew, pew, pewing them. I think we're, we're also fine to ride. Oh, and we get to ride a horse. We get to ride a horse. We do get to ride a horse. 

Jen: Yes. So you will be sorted. 

Ellie: I will be delighted. Don't worry, Jen. You can ride behind me. You can hold on.

I'll be fine. 

Jen: Okay. So I can pull this boat off 

Ellie: the horse. [00:59:00] Hey, I have been doing, I've been doing a lot of horse riding lessons since we have been recording this podcast. 

Jen: Yeah. I haven't. Like, do you think your skills can outweigh my like lack of skills? 

Ellie: Possibly possibly. I'm not saying that I am so skillful, like I'm not saying that my skills are like 200 percent to then balance this out, but like the level you need, I just need you to not freak out.

Oh, I can do that. 

Jen: I'm like, I'm used to being in the back of a motorbike tones, which is like way scarier than a horse. So yeah, 

Ellie: yeah, no, you're fine. You're fine. We're 

Jen: it's like swinging a chain or something. 

Ellie: Oh yeah. We can actually divide the weapons. So like, yeah. Oh, having the two of us on the horse actually makes it sound easier, if I'm honest, 

Jen: yeah.

More weapons, more protection. And like, he went from never ridden, having ridden a horse to being able to gallop [01:00:00] along a bridge and swing a chain in the course of like a week or two. So we can totally do that. 

Ellie: And also, of course, I noticed the, uh, the, um, inconsistencies in the horse narrative. Horses in this world are particularly sensitive to God essence.

It's said at one point, like more than cats and dogs, 

Jen: there's just like a random section that they start talking about animals, God essences, and it's never brought up again. They're just like, here's a paragraph. 

Ellie: Yeah. Yeah. So, so the horse comes galloping along because Sando has come for like that, like showdown at the airport and the horse comes galloping in like warning because he can sense all this God essence energy coming towards them.

And then in the final battle, he gets on the horse and rides. towards all of the bad energy. And I'm like, from what you described, horses cannot charge into battle against high gods. And anything involving loads of God [01:01:00] essence, um, Even like 

Jen: David himself would be exuding fuck tons of God essence. So it's like, ah, this horse does not like loud sounds.

I will put a loud speaker on its back and send it towards a concert. 

Ellie: Yeah. Like maybe by that point the horse has gotten used to David just existing and exuding all the time. So it's like a little less sensitive, but yeah, riding into battle, I was a little questionable. Like at that point, David had ridden the horse a lot.

As in, at least. Twice. 

Jen: So. Yeah, but like when you train like warhorses and stuff up, you have to do it from when they're essentially foals. Like you can't train a horse to be a warhorse. 

Ellie: But that was my one pet peeve as somebody who loves and knows stuff about horses. I'm like, wait, what are you talking about?

Um, but anyway, okay. We, we're charging in. You've got the, you've got the chains and whatever and I'm, I'm leading. Yeah. Jane is, Jen [01:02:00] is doing a fantastic, uh, visual reenactment of how she would whip around chains, which, uh, I'm so sorry that you can't see, but it is bringing me lots of delight. Anyway. Showing off my skills.

Okay. Are we also. Like, not winning in the fight against the big bad. I mean, we have to. 

Jen: We get sabotaged by our own mother, own mother, disgraceful. So yeah, yeah, she, she backs off with her mates and we're screwed. Yeah, 

Ellie: I 

Jen: guess, I guess we do kind of have to fail. Yeah, you're right. And then we go and get tortured for a while, as you do.

Ellie: Which was actually unexpected for me in this book because at that point I was kind of wondering was this a YA book? And so I didn't really expect the torture to go on for as long as it did, [01:03:00] or like the description of it to go on for as long as it did. Thing is, it felt like it had kind of avoided, I don't know what, I don't know what exactly, but yeah.

Jen: Yeah. I mean, my main problem with the torture was at one point, Aganju makes this comment about how he doesn't care about the battle. He doesn't care about like the process or any of the, of the like showboating. All he cares about is winning. It's like, dude, if all you care about is winning, why are you just like randomly torturing your enemy?

Just kill him. Makes no sense. That is 200 percent true. Yeah. But we, we've already, you know, we're, we're chill getting hit by lightning. Probably can deal with the torture. This is like the 16th time that this happened to us in, in this book. 

Ellie: And also we, we directly don't get tortured that much. We just hear other people being tortured.

Jen: Oh yeah. Like let everyone else get tortured. No worries. 

Ellie: I, I, I can see how mentally that would mess somebody up, but 

Jen: [01:04:00] yeah, 

Ellie: exactly. Like physically, physically we're still fine. I feel like 

Jen: that's much more one of those, like, it's going to, you're going to wake up screaming in like years to come kind of thing.

Yeah. Um, but in surviving in the moment, this person who you've never had a conversation with, but you saw a smile once, I mean, if they're the one getting tortured, okay. 

Ellie: I'm 

Jen: being 

Ellie: so mean 

Jen: about this one. Uh, but, so, Mami then comes to save us. And then, 

Ellie: yeah, we get saved, the building's on fire and we make it out to the gardens and we're kind of having a moment of David and his mother, like his mother confessing that like, Oh yeah, I sacrificed what you thought was the big battle and we told nobody so that we could actually weaken him and get in here.

I didn't ask you finally being captured, but you know, we had to stage what looked like the final showdown. To get him to divert his attention, to actually hit him hard. Which you know,[01:05:00] 

I get, like, I guess that's, I guess that's true. I don't know. It's how the book went, um, but mid, mid, uh, emotional like, wait, what are you talking about? Ganju and his three generals, his three general gods, um, just come strolling out from behind a different tree, and I like. Yeah. Well, you still haven't finished me off yet, um, and the final, final boss battle happens in the gardens.

Jen: So what 

Ellie: do we 

Jen: have 

Ellie: to do to survive? So within our side is a piece of this kind of like, I'm going to call it metal that was similar to the hammer that the lightning god would wield against us. So it's causing us unbearable pain and [01:06:00] basically just have this leaking wound in our side. Um, and every time a ganju like squeezes his hand, it like moves and cuts another organ or, or, or, or such, or some such.

Um, so all of the gods square off to their respective evil God. And I think at this point, David has had a bit of a personal breakthrough because while he is battling, he doesn't seem as like chaos fueled. Because I guess that is the problem with being the god of war, like, you just get drunk on what you're doing.

Um, and as his mother slowly is successfully killing the goddess, um, that has kind of birthed all these godling spawn, and all the godling spawn start to disappear because [01:07:00] the main general is being killed. That distracts a ganju enough. For us to chain him, capture him, somewhat, and then we basically stab each other at the same time.

So Ganju stabs us in the heart, we chop off his arm. And then, Ganju has a second sword? Goes to attack us, and we chop off his head. Okay. I think that's how it goes.

Jen: It's been so long since you read this book Ellie, I'm surprised. 

Ellie: I know! How dare I not know the exact movements of the That's basically the general gist of the final battle. Like I'm trying to condense it in my head to be like, yeah, the gods square off, we're fighting the main guy, as our mother succeeds in being the god of war, it distracts Ganju enough that we get a good couple of [01:08:00] blows in, but in the end he both stabs us.

As we kill him and we Phoenix ourselves and erupt in flame, hoping to just fully consume and kill him, chop off his head, knowing that we're probably sacrificing ourselves. 

Jen: Okay. Um, I mean, I feel like I've definitely got enough of a vindictive streak that I'd be like, yeah, you might kill me, but I'm sure as hell killing you too.

Ellie: And also at this point, in a similar way, like we've entered the arena, so we're not really going to be able to run. This guy can teleport anyway. He learns that at some point. Yeah. Yeah. I think. Similarly, it's the, it's the, like, I guess making the move when he gets distracted. That's what we have to, to, to be aware, like, to be ready for.

So I'd say it's a 50 50 toss. Going all phoenix and, and burning around us, I think, I think we would also [01:09:00] make that leap. Like, it's not a very, uh, hard leap in the book of, wait, I have been told every time I rise from the ashes, I am dying. Let me rise from the ashes once more. So, I'm giving, I'm giving myself a 50 50 split on this one.

If I am also not being distracted by my mother killing this other god. 

Jen: I mean that's just an everyday occurrence, like. Um, yeah, and I feel like, you know, if. If you've been, like, tortured or just, like, held captive for a long time, you're probably sleep deprived, you're probably hungry, which, for me at least, always makes me freezing cold.

So the idea of setting myself on fire, all for it, let's go.

Ellie: I thought you were just going to be like, I'm hungry, I want to finish the job, but.

Jen: It's just a step up from, like, the, the boiling lobster baths, you know? It's like, oh, I now have this extra [01:10:00] option, I'm going to do it. Yeah, 50 50, we survive the final showdown, which I think is 

Ellie: actually like we have survived this book very well. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can, 

Jen: we can pretty confidently say that we have survived David Mogo, God Hunter.

Nice job. Nice. Nice. Woo. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe. You can find us on Instagram at ifwesurvivedthis. Let us know of any books that you'd like us to review. 

Ellie: And our next episode will be the fifth season by NK Jemisin. See you then! 

Jen: Bye!